Hey Zeus!
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05-08-2015, 06:28 AM
RE: Hey Zeus!
(04-08-2015 11:41 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  The institutions that venerated, preserved, and promulgated these documents had vested commercial, political, and emotional interests in advancing certain doctrines and views, and would have benefited greatly from their modification.

Romans 13 would be a prime example of that as well as"give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's"

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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05-08-2015, 07:02 AM
RE: Hey Zeus!
(04-08-2015 08:38 PM)Free Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 08:10 PM)Octapulse Wrote:  I have read some pretty compelling evidence as to why Jesus never existed, but I recently discovered that Hitchens asserted that Jesus of Nazareth was actually a real person. Does anyone know his argument for this or have any good resources to check out on the subject?

Gracias

There's plenty of arguments both ways, but the reality is that there is one consistency that is found in various sources in which those who believe Jesus was a total myth cannot adequately address.

Circa AD 32, Jesus, who was called Christ, was crucified by Pontius Pilate in Judea.

Sources for this consistency are many, beginning with the Gospel Records, Acts, and Letters of Paul from Christian sources. From the Jewish sources we have Flavious Josephus. Roman sources we have Cornelius Tacitus. Greek/Pagan sources, we have the Gnostics.

All these sources, and many others, indicate this same consistency. This consistency has never changed in 2000 years, and has never been successfully challenged by anyone.

I knew it was only a matter of time before xians were up in here with faulty"evidence" and logic such as"it's true, it says so in the bible"

Thanks for playing

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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05-08-2015, 07:17 AM
RE: Hey Zeus!
Free is anything but a Christian.

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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Atheism promotes critical thinking; theism promotes hypocritical thinking. -- Me
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05-08-2015, 10:46 AM
RE: Hey Zeus!
(05-08-2015 07:17 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Free is anything but a Christian.

Is there such a thing as an atheist that accepts the bible as a legitimate source of authority?

(22-08-2015 07:30 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  It is by will alone I set my brows in motion it is by the conditioner of avocado that the brows acquire volume the skin acquires spots the spots become a warning. It is by will alone I set my brows in motion.
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05-08-2015, 12:18 PM (This post was last modified: 05-08-2015 12:32 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Hey Zeus!
(05-08-2015 10:46 AM)Octapulse Wrote:  
(05-08-2015 07:17 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  Free is anything but a Christian.

Is there such a thing as an atheist that accepts the bible as a legitimate source of authority?

Free is an atheist to my knowledge, and he(assumption) and I had a spirited go long ago over the veracity of my statement "no proof of an actual jesus exists"...it isnt as cut and dried as we would like, and a lot of it IS subjective. Between the plethora of pseudepigrapha, and interpolations, establishing 2,000 years later who truly wrote what and who modified which passage becomes an exercise in exegesis and analysis of linguistics and historicity. In the end, it is a moot point, which I concede, whether or not some charismatic fellow named jesus was skipping around claiming himself to be yet another messiah of the Pentateuch prophesy is irrelevant.

What is relevant is we know overall that no one who wrote of him, actually knew him, and more importantly even if that statement isn't 100% provable, we definitely know that no one who wrote about the magic, was a first hand witness. Paul claims he saw jesus post resurrection, but Paul had motive to lie, and there is zero corroboration. The synoptic gospels were penned by anonymous authors based on urban myth, hearsay and "tradition" years after the death of the book's namesakes. So, to concede the myth of the son of god was based on a lunatic who thought he was the son of god....meh, sure, the claim does not the truth make though.

As atheists it is essential we do not just toe the "party line" and blindly accept popular anti-theism information spreading around the net, without validating it for ourselves, without researching and analyzing the information, because nothing discredits and undermines us more than spewing our own version of misinformation in a well meaning attempt to discredit the theism position. Just my two cents. I have learned much over the years, learned even more while being a member here, and have had to toss some of my assumptions into the trash can upon closer scrutiny. the good thing is when I make a BS posit, people here will call me out on it, and they should...or at least throw a reply on me with different information for us all to consider. Knowledge is power, the more we know, the easier we can dismantle the misinformation for what it is....fiction, fantasy and forgery.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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05-08-2015, 12:37 PM
RE: Hey Zeus!
(04-08-2015 09:29 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Dear OP.

While it is possible a man named Jesus walked the earth, Jesus the Christ however, is most unlikely.

And no, outside of literature approved by the church to remain in circulation, no evidence of Christ exists. In fact the Christian Roman empire on more than one occasion took time to destroy any books harmful to xianity.

One may ask, why were they so afraid? Wink

Wouldn't a lot of records of the existence of Jesus have been destroyed when Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans in 70 AD?
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05-08-2015, 12:43 PM
RE: Hey Zeus!
(05-08-2015 12:37 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 09:29 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Dear OP.

While it is possible a man named Jesus walked the earth, Jesus the Christ however, is most unlikely.

And no, outside of literature approved by the church to remain in circulation, no evidence of Christ exists. In fact the Christian Roman empire on more than one occasion took time to destroy any books harmful to xianity.

One may ask, why were they so afraid? Wink

Wouldn't a lot of records of the existence of Jesus have been destroyed when Jerusalem was sacked by the Romans in 70 AD?

and HJ enters the room. The ever popular "all evidence was burned" posit Rolleyes yet somehow the magic stories remained Gasp

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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05-08-2015, 06:37 PM
RE: Hey Zeus!
(04-08-2015 08:59 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Not this again.

Popcorn

Yeah, I know. Same fucking idiotic bullshit from history deniers.

I will let him wallow in his bullshit.

Thumbsup

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05-08-2015, 06:43 PM
RE: Hey Zeus!
(04-08-2015 11:45 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 08:38 PM)Free Wrote:  There's plenty of arguments both ways, but the reality is that there is one consistency that is found in various sources in which those who believe Jesus was a total myth cannot adequately address.

Circa AD 32, Jesus, who was called Christ, was crucified by Pontius Pilate in Judea.

Sources for this consistency are many, beginning with the Gospel Records, Acts, and Letters of Paul from Christian sources. From the Jewish sources we have Flavious Josephus. Roman sources we have Cornelius Tacitus. Greek/Pagan sources, we have the Gnostics.

All these sources, and many others, indicate this same consistency. This consistency has never changed in 2000 years, and has never been successfully challenged by anyone.


You once again gloss over how the Gospels are anonymously written, and decades (if not centuries) after the supposed events, our earliest copies of which are anything more than scraps come form centuries later; and the fact that later sources cannot be independently verified to be sourced from anything other than already believing Christians (who they themselves already believed, not not necessarily because they themselves had any evidence, which is still sitting at right about fuck all). There are no eye-witness accounts, and even the Josephus passages (which are almost certainly later Christian interpolations, most likely created by Eusebius of Caesarea) happened decades after the supposed events and aren't sourced from any witnesses either.


Say it with me again: Sources quoting already-believing Christians removed by decades (if not centuries) from the supposed events and without any evidence themselves, does not count as evidence or independent corroboration!


So... "Circa AD 32, Jesus, who was called Christ, was crucified by Pontius Pilate in Judea" means fuck all, because you cannot even begin to come close to establishing that event actually happened.

Say this with me:

Multiple sources from multiple cultures are all attesting to the exact same event regarding the crucifixion of Jesus.

Now, show me evidence to prove, or even shed reasonable doubt, as to why all these multiple sources from multiple cultures can all reach the same conclusion while being exclusive from each other.

I need to see some fucking degree of intelligence from you stupid fucks, so let's, for once, see an argument that I am incapable of completely annihilating by merely pointing out how fucking logically fallacious it actually is. You mythers are so much more fun to ridicule than Christians are, because you have such a hilarious propensity toward conspiracy theories, and in many cases, lack even less reasoning skills than many religionists I have encountered.

Fucking disgrace to reason, and to atheism.

Bring it, or fuck off.

Big Grin

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05-08-2015, 06:50 PM
RE: Hey Zeus!
(05-08-2015 06:43 PM)Free Wrote:  
(04-08-2015 11:45 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You once again gloss over how the Gospels are anonymously written, and decades (if not centuries) after the supposed events, our earliest copies of which are anything more than scraps come form centuries later; and the fact that later sources cannot be independently verified to be sourced from anything other than already believing Christians (who they themselves already believed, not not necessarily because they themselves had any evidence, which is still sitting at right about fuck all). There are no eye-witness accounts, and even the Josephus passages (which are almost certainly later Christian interpolations, most likely created by Eusebius of Caesarea) happened decades after the supposed events and aren't sourced from any witnesses either.


Say it with me again: Sources quoting already-believing Christians removed by decades (if not centuries) from the supposed events and without any evidence themselves, does not count as evidence or independent corroboration!


So... "Circa AD 32, Jesus, who was called Christ, was crucified by Pontius Pilate in Judea" means fuck all, because you cannot even begin to come close to establishing that event actually happened.

Say this with me:

Multiple sources from multiple cultures are all attesting to the exact same event regarding the crucifixion of Jesus.

Now, show me evidence to prove, or even shed reasonable doubt, as to why all these multiple sources from multiple cultures can all reach the same conclusion while being exclusive from each other.

I need to see some fucking degree of intelligence from you stupid fucks, so let's, for once, see an argument that I am incapable of completely annihilating by merely pointing out how fucking logically fallacious it actually is. You mythers are so much more fun to ridicule than Christians are, because you have such a hilarious propensity toward conspiracy theories, and in many cases, lack even less reasoning skills than many religionists I have encountered.

Fucking disgrace to reason, and to atheism.

Bring it, or fuck off.

Big Grin

Multiple retellings of the same myth. Every one of those is hearsay decades after the alleged events.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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