Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-03-2016, 12:07 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2016 12:10 PM by Aliza.)
RE: Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
Welcome!

I'm largely uninformed about what Muslims believe. What exactly does Islam teach about creation, and from your experience, what do most Muslims believe about that story? Is it taken as literal, or does it generally just spell a metaphorical creationist tale?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-03-2016, 12:30 PM
RE: Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
(25-03-2016 12:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Welcome!

I'm largely uninformed about what Muslims believe. What exactly does Islam teach about creation, and from your experience, what do most Muslims believe about that story? Is it taken as literal, or does it generally just spell a metaphorical creationist tale?

Islam pretty much preaches that it's the continuation of the two previous Ibrahamic religions, so it teaches basically the same thing about creation as Christianity and Judaism do. And about what is metaphorical what is literal, the thing is, the subject is not really discussed that much so, unlike conversations in christian creationism, nobody has pushed any Islamic scholars with any facts enough for them to explain when to make that distinction (because it's really THE hardest subject to have a conversation about without the other party starting to suspect that you are a "kafer"... and you seriously DON'T want to be labelled that where I come from).

So, I think we're in the default position, which is everything in the Qur'an is being taken as literal.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Ned777's post
25-03-2016, 12:37 PM
RE: Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
(25-03-2016 12:04 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(25-03-2016 08:04 AM)Ned777 Wrote:  ...
your best friends, mosques announcing for prayers, in the way we talk, the way we see life and all the fortunes/misfortunes we encounter, Allah is included everywhere.
...

Welcome.

I can relate to some of what you write.

I'm a European. a kafir, now living in an officially Islamic country. So although I'm not as deeply entangled in it as you were, I've got to confess that it's getting me down.

Much sympathy.

Thank you. And hang in there, man. It's tough to live in a country where the people only recognize their own and shit on everyone else. Such democracy, much tolerance. Censored
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Ned777's post
25-03-2016, 01:05 PM
RE: Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
Evil-ew-shun is the debil's spawn.

What country are you from? I think it's funny how the Western countries often criticise the Muslim or Arab countries at being so backwards, so religiously engrossed and yet, your story doesn't seem so different from that of many people coming from the American bible belt.

So many stories of kids having to hide their disbelief from their family, friends and neighborhood. And that being difficult because religion is so ingrained into everyday life. Kids having group prayers before sports games, parents going to school boards and getting caught up in lengthy "Praise Jebus" session rather than talking about school concerns. School boards constantly fighting to keep "Evolution" out of science.

But thankfully America is the odd man out here. Many other Western countries, it doesn't matter what religion you are or aren't. People don't often know what your religion is, we cohabitate peacefully and accept others in our diverse nations.

Of course, all the Islamic extremist fueled terrorism causes many people to be scared of and bigoted towards muslims. Which, in a feedback loop causes may Muslims to feel persecuted and more likely to take the extremist path.

Anyway, evolution is a fascinating topic, just amazing how the simple concepts of descent with modification, changing environments, competition for limited resources ultimately end up having RNA and DNA, complex Cellular machinery, Multi cellular life forms, and over billions of years result in the incredibly complex and fine tuned plethora of organisms we see today.

It is no wonder many people assume that it is so complex, so fine tuned that an all powerful god must have done it.

Education is the key, of course, just a little understanding is needed to grasp it, to see the beauty and simplicity of evolution. But with devout religious belief comes a strong resistance to it. They don't want to believe that it wasn't an intelligent god that created life, they want to believe that humans are special and distinct from non human animals. They want to believe that they are god's special creation, having an obligation to be god like, to obey god's moral laws. This makes them want to be ignorant of evolution, makes them want to accept the multitude of mis-information (regarding evolution). Makes them write psuedo-science books, publish psuedo-science propoganda. Many religious folk see the obvious threat that evolution presents to their beliefs. Given the law of non contradiction many religious beliefs cannot exist in a world where the Theory of Evolution is correct.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Stevil's post
25-03-2016, 01:09 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2016 01:12 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
Islam came directly from the Arabic moon god cult.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid169445




Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
25-03-2016, 01:27 PM
RE: Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
(25-03-2016 01:05 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Evil-ew-shun is the debil's spawn.

What country are you from? I think it's funny how the Western countries often criticise the Muslim or Arab countries at being so backwards, so religiously engrossed and yet, your story doesn't seem so different from that of many people coming from the American bible belt.

So many stories of kids having to hide their disbelief from their family, friends and neighborhood. And that being difficult because religion is so ingrained into everyday life. Kids having group prayers before sports games, parents going to school boards and getting caught up in lengthy "Praise Jebus" session rather than talking about school concerns. School boards constantly fighting to keep "Evolution" out of science.

But thankfully America is the odd man out here. Many other Western countries, it doesn't matter what religion you are or aren't. People don't often know what your religion is, we cohabitate peacefully and accept others in our diverse nations.

Of course, all the Islamic extremist fueled terrorism causes many people to be scared of and bigoted towards muslims. Which, in a feedback loop causes may Muslims to feel persecuted and more likely to take the extremist path.

Anyway, evolution is a fascinating topic, just amazing how the simple concepts of descent with modification, changing environments, competition for limited resources ultimately end up having RNA and DNA, complex Cellular machinery, Multi cellular life forms, and over billions of years result in the incredibly complex and fine tuned plethora of organisms we see today.

It is no wonder many people assume that it is so complex, so fine tuned that an all powerful god must have done it.

Education is the key, of course, just a little understanding is needed to grasp it, to see the beauty and simplicity of evolution. But with devout religious belief comes a strong resistance to it. They don't want to believe that it wasn't an intelligent god that created life, they want to believe that humans are special and distinct from non human animals. They want to believe that they are god's special creation, having an obligation to be god like, to obey god's moral laws. This makes them want to be ignorant of evolution, makes them want to accept the multitude of mis-information (regarding evolution). Makes them write psuedo-science books, publish psuedo-science propoganda. Many religious folk see the obvious threat that evolution presents to their beliefs. Given the law of non contradiction many religious beliefs cannot exist in a world where the Theory of Evolution is correct.

I come from Egypt. And as you said, my story is not so different because the issue is the same: favoring belief over concrete facts. As a biotechnology student, I too am fascinated with the mechanisms of evolution. What's really irritating me is that it's not that hard to explain and to grasp its principles, we were just trained not to.

Did you know we have RELIGION CLASSES based on our religion? In School? Since the age of 6 years old! If you are a Muslim you go to an Islam class and same for Christians. That starts before you get any science classes whatsoever! And you don't even get to choose your religion you are just thrown in it, something that will relatively dictate how you LIVE your life, just because your father is of a certain specific religion. Never mind that the child at that age does NOT understand what he is going into, never mind that he might not like this religion and that he like the other one or even worse he WOULD have liked another religion if he was informed of it. Nope. All that is not even your right. Because of course, what frightens a parent more then having a non-believing child? Seriously, in my country there is NOTHING worse than that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Ned777's post
25-03-2016, 01:34 PM (This post was last modified: 25-03-2016 01:45 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
(25-03-2016 12:30 PM)Ned777 Wrote:  Islam pretty much preaches that it's the continuation of the two previous Ibrahamic religions,

Except it's not. That's the claim. It's been proven false.
Christianity bastardized Judaism, and there is no way the "Father" in Christianity (as a part of a trinity) is Yahweh, as the Jews thought of him.
Similar names are claimed. Very different concepts. The founding original deity in Islam Al Illah, (we know from the Satanic Verses) had 3 divine daughters, (just as the god Sin did).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
25-03-2016, 01:45 PM
RE: Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
(25-03-2016 09:36 AM)carol Wrote:  Welcome! If you live in a place where you may get into trouble for posting, please be careful.

That's what I was gonna say. Sad

Beaten again. Weeping

(25-03-2016 01:05 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Evil-ew-shun is the debil's spawn.

What country are you from? I think it's funny how the Western countries often criticise the Muslim or Arab countries at being so backwards, so religiously engrossed and yet, your story doesn't seem so different from that of many people coming from the American bible belt.

So many stories of kids having to hide their disbelief from their family, friends and neighborhood. And that being difficult because religion is so ingrained into everyday life. Kids having group prayers before sports games, parents going to school boards and getting caught up in lengthy "Praise Jebus" session rather than talking about school concerns. School boards constantly fighting to keep "Evolution" out of science.

But thankfully America is the odd man out here. Many other Western countries, it doesn't matter what religion you are or aren't. People don't often know what your religion is, we cohabitate peacefully and accept others in our diverse nations.

Of course, all the Islamic extremist fueled terrorism causes many people to be scared of and bigoted towards muslims. Which, in a feedback loop causes may Muslims to feel persecuted and more likely to take the extremist path.

Anyway, evolution is a fascinating topic, just amazing how the simple concepts of descent with modification, changing environments, competition for limited resources ultimately end up having RNA and DNA, complex Cellular machinery, Multi cellular life forms, and over billions of years result in the incredibly complex and fine tuned plethora of organisms we see today.

It is no wonder many people assume that it is so complex, so fine tuned that an all powerful god must have done it.

Education is the key, of course, just a little understanding is needed to grasp it, to see the beauty and simplicity of evolution. But with devout religious belief comes a strong resistance to it. They don't want to believe that it wasn't an intelligent god that created life, they want to believe that humans are special and distinct from non human animals. They want to believe that they are god's special creation, having an obligation to be god like, to obey god's moral laws. This makes them want to be ignorant of evolution, makes them want to accept the multitude of mis-information (regarding evolution). Makes them write psuedo-science books, publish psuedo-science propoganda. Many religious folk see the obvious threat that evolution presents to their beliefs. Given the law of non contradiction many religious beliefs cannot exist in a world where the Theory of Evolution is correct.

Excellent post Steve.

To Ned. Welcome and enjoy your ride.

[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Banjo's post
25-03-2016, 03:17 PM
RE: Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
(25-03-2016 12:30 PM)Ned777 Wrote:  
(25-03-2016 12:07 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Welcome!

I'm largely uninformed about what Muslims believe. What exactly does Islam teach about creation, and from your experience, what do most Muslims believe about that story? Is it taken as literal, or does it generally just spell a metaphorical creationist tale?

Islam pretty much preaches that it's the continuation of the two previous Ibrahamic religions, so it teaches basically the same thing about creation as Christianity and Judaism do. And about what is metaphorical what is literal, the thing is, the subject is not really discussed that much so, unlike conversations in christian creationism, nobody has pushed any Islamic scholars with any facts enough for them to explain when to make that distinction (because it's really THE hardest subject to have a conversation about without the other party starting to suspect that you are a "kafer"... and you seriously DON'T want to be labelled that where I come from).

So, I think we're in the default position, which is everything in the Qur'an is being taken as literal.

How do Muslims explain the many divisions of Islamic schools and branches? I looked at Wikipedia but didn't find reasons for the divisions historical or otherwise.
Didn't they talk about that when you were in school?

Today is the best day of my life and tomorrow will be even better.
Robert himself
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-03-2016, 03:36 PM
RE: Hey everyone :) wanna talk a bit about my "native" religion Islam..
(25-03-2016 08:04 AM)Ned777 Wrote:  So I just joined, and to tell you the truth I honestly don't know what I'm doing here. I'm an Arab -supposed to be- Muslim, because as you know, with many religions of this sort, you don't get to choose it, you inherit it. Even If you don't like it. Pretty fair, right? Undecided

It's not to say I hate Islam, absolutely not. If I had to choose a religion it would be either that or Buddhism. Even though people might say that it clearly advocates violent behavior towards non-believers, homosexuals, cutting the hands of thieves, etc, to tell you the truth many of these things are unacceptable where I come from. That WOULD mean that even if we say and think that our country bases its laws on Islamic Sharia, as long as we don't do exactly as what is written in the Qur'an or in the Prophet's Sunna, or as long as we aren't doing the same think as Saudi Arabia, we aren't truly following Islam. And what good is a religion if you cheery pick God's words, amiright?

But no, this is NOT what pushed me away from Islam, or any faith based religion in fact. It's because I just can't believe in creationism. And why did that happen with me, an Arab "Muslim", of all people? It's because I'm now out of the country and studying science, mainly biotechnology, and thus learned what Evolution truly is. In my home country, we will laugh at such notion, we will say the cliche'd things like "Believing we evolved from monkeys is stupid" and all that shit. We DO have science universities, but they are completely devoid from objectivity!! The moment such a notion would arrive following some scientific reasoning to explain something in biology we just say "this is one of the miracles of God, Subhan Allah" and wtvr. Evolution isn't even discussed as it is. And if you think you can actually say out loud that you think evolution is how we came to be, you will be laughed at, scorned, and humiliated till the day you die.

You might think "Fine, just keep it to yourself and move on".. but you need to understand that as a non-believer in Islam in my home country, you are still surrounded by it all the time; your family, your best friends, mosques announcing for prayers, in the way we talk, the way we see life and all the fortunes/misfortunes we encounter, Allah is included everywhere. And the MOST horrifying thing about it, is that these friends that I love, I basically know how they will react if I told them I don't believe in Islam anymore. You need to know, the word for non-believer in arabic, "Kafer", is a very VERY powerful, one of the worst words you can say about someone, and no one will stand beside you when you are labelled that. No one. Not even the closest of people. Your own mother will be on the other side trying to convince you to "come back". You don't know how frustrating it is.Sadcryface

And you, as a person, just don't have enough energy or resources to convince them of your point of view, because when it comes to God, there is NO place for argument. None. But in the end, losing these people will still devastate me.Sadcryface Because I'm the type that really doesn't want much from life as long as I have good people around me. Sooo, I looked up somewhere on the internet where I can say all this, and here I am. Unsure I swear I was gonna explode if I hadn't done this.

I hope this isn't too long to read because I really need some insight here..

Welcome to rational thought Smile

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: