Hey, fellow Americans. Want to be terrified?
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12-05-2017, 11:38 AM
RE: Hey, fellow Americans. Want to be terrified?
(12-05-2017 12:02 AM)JesseB Wrote:  
(11-05-2017 11:52 PM)kim Wrote:  Some people have a bad reaction to vaccine because virus are grown in eggs. Even most people who are allergic to eggs can take vaccines but a few just can't do with particular egg proteins. Maybe you are one of those.

I have a friend who can't get the ones they give at the local Walgreens but he goes to his doctor for his four shots. Evidently, there are two flu vaccines that don't contain egg proteins, approved for use in adults age 18 and older. Maybe ask your doctor about it. Shy

This too!

My point was the flu shot can make you FEEL sick, that doesn't mean you ARE sick.
According to the CDC, feverish symptoms following killed virus flu vaccination are (1) rare, (2) last 1-2 days and (3) are far less severe than the actual flu.

My response to the live virus vaccines of the 1970s, did not seem to me to be any different from the actual flu, or at least a bad cold. I didn't see the point. But, as I get older, and adding in the fact that I'm a diabetic, I am far more vulnerable and it's taking me longer and longer to recover from anything I *do* catch. Last time, in the 2015-2016 winter, it was a full month of feeling like warmed-over shit, including, for the first time, fucking PINK-EYE. Not going to go there again if I can help it. So, apart from my best stab at healthy eating, glucose control, etc., it's lots of hand washing, getting in the habit of using sanitary wipes, and flu shots for me.

Just one more way getting old is SO much fun ...
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12-05-2017, 12:39 PM
RE: Hey, fellow Americans. Want to be terrified?
(12-05-2017 11:32 AM)mordant Wrote:  
(11-05-2017 08:49 PM)Ruby Crystal Wrote:  I get bad reactions to vaccine, not ones for school but rather the ones for the Flu, it's not just a republican thing. Everything I got the Flu Vaccine I would get very sick for the week. I stopped taking that one every year and never had another problem.
That was me in my early twenties as well, but that was in the late 1970s when live flu vaccines were still in use. Entering my 60th year I finally relented and got a flu shot this past fall and had no ill effect other than a slightly sore arm for a couple of days. Also, I did not get the flu this winter, although that is probably a combination of dumb luck, more compulsive hand-washing in public places and the fact that the strains in the vaccine were nearly spot-on for once, in terms of what was actually in circulation to catch this year.

My guess is that if you are still reacting to modern "killed" flu vaccines, you have some sort of allergy to eggs, which go into the making of the vaccine.

I haven't gotten the flu or a bad cold for years, I get vaccinated every year. However, I have gotten the norovirus and strep throat in the last ten years.

There's too many vicious things that can get you to be prepared for all of them, but I'm happy to not get dragged down by those.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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12-05-2017, 01:59 PM
RE: Hey, fellow Americans. Want to be terrified?
(12-05-2017 11:38 AM)mordant Wrote:  ---
--- for the first time, fucking PINK-EYE.

You've only ever had it once? Pfff... piker. Drinking Beverage

Try about every other year for the past decade. Dodgy Laughat

I was due this year but took extra precautions. So far, so good. Thumbsup

Only 2 antibiotics are left to kill that shit. Hope they last as long as I do. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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12-05-2017, 03:09 PM
RE: Hey, fellow Americans. Want to be terrified?
I *know* more than a few quiver types. One, quite well and she was "picked on" because she only had three kids.

We used to be close years ago (she was a bridesmaid in my wedding) I told her flatly that was crazy. Her man was into that shit.

She had four more kids, back to back.

Eventually we lost touch. Go figure. I found her on fb recently, she looks like she's 70, complaining about her "empty quiver." Quiver code for she can't have any more children. I don't know if she had more than 7. And Duggar recipes. I didn't send her a friend request.

I miss the person she used to be.

But yes, she said more than once what their goals were. Terrifying shit


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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12-05-2017, 03:28 PM
RE: Hey, fellow Americans. Want to be terrified?
(12-05-2017 01:59 PM)kim Wrote:  
(12-05-2017 11:38 AM)mordant Wrote:  ---
--- for the first time, fucking PINK-EYE.

You've only ever had it once? Pfff... piker. Drinking Beverage

Try about every other year for the past decade. Dodgy Laughat

I was due this year but took extra precautions. So far, so good. Thumbsup

Only 2 antibiotics are left to kill that shit. Hope they last as long as I do. Shy
Yeah well it's the only thing that has taken me down to where I couldn't work at all. Can't work if I can't see.

Since as a 100% telecommute I am free to work in my bathrobe or tidy whities or whatever, sickness has never made me completely unavailable to my clients before. And of course if you can't read or surf the net or work or eat, all that's left is to be aware of the steaming pile of backlog that's building up with your client load. That's worse than the illness itself.

Of course it is entirely possible that I'll have it every other year from now on. In my case it was viral, and there's nothing for that except steroids I suppose. Anyway I have redoubled my efforts to stay well by taking the vaccine like a good boy and pretending to be an obsessive compulsive when it comes to cleanliness.
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12-05-2017, 04:25 PM
RE: Hey, fellow Americans. Want to be terrified?
I used to hear people say (in a sage voice), "I don't use vaccines because I took one and it made me sick!"

Vaccines trigger your immune system to think it's being invaded (the immune cells recognize proteins on the surface of invaders, not the invaders themselves, which is why killed viruses work... the surface coat proteins are intact, while the inner "infectious" material is dead), leading you to develop immune cells pre-programmed to fight that particular invader, and thus to have a faster response to later attacks by the real virus or anything like it. That's why vaccines work. All they do is program your immune cells to recognize a particular set of proteins on the surface of invaders, so they can attack immediately. They're not a perfect, magical shield against infection. More importantly, they can take 2-3 weeks to copy new versions of your immune cells with the "new" programming, so if someone says, "I got a flu shot and then I got the flu, so it's because of the shot", they're just plain wrong. You got the flu before your flu shot took full effect, and it was still able to overcome your not-yet-reprogrammed immune system while the new soldiers were in training. People who don't understand this basic concept need to be smacked and forced to repeat it until they have it memorized.

Also, I grew up in that fundamentalist environment (though thankfully, not part of Quiverfull) that preached that we had a duty to learn our apologetics, convert the world, and seek to change the government to be on the "right side" when the apocalypse comes. When I tell people I was "trained in apologetics" from a young age, because they recognized how bright I was, it now occurs to me that without reading the above article the person may not realize WHY I was being groomed for this role in the Culture Wars™.

The more you learn about these people, the more terrifying they are. If you don't fear them, you don't understand what's going on.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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12-05-2017, 04:38 PM
RE: Hey, fellow Americans. Want to be terrified?
(12-05-2017 04:25 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I used to hear people say (in a sage voice), "I don't use vaccines because I took one and it made me sick!"

Vaccines trigger your immune system to think it's being invaded (the immune cells recognize proteins on the surface of invaders, not the invaders themselves, which is why killed viruses work... the surface coat proteins are intact, while the inner "infectious" material is dead), leading you to develop immune cells pre-programmed to fight that particular invader, and thus to have a faster response to later attacks by the real virus or anything like it. That's why vaccines work. All they do is program your immune cells to recognize a particular set of proteins on the surface of invaders, so they can attack immediately. They're not a perfect, magical shield against infection. More importantly, they can take 2-3 weeks to copy new versions of your immune cells with the "new" programming, so if someone says, "I got a flu shot and then I got the flu, so it's because of the shot", they're just plain wrong. You got the flu before your flu shot took full effect, and it was still able to overcome your not-yet-reprogrammed immune system while the new soldiers were in training. People who don't understand this basic concept need to be smacked and forced to
All quite true and between the opening you describe to get sick anyway, the fact that it's somewhat by-guess-and-by-golly what strains of influenza the current year's production of vaccine works with vs what actually ends up in circulation, whether you get the 2-strain or the more expensive 3-strain vaccine, etc., I've read studies that point out that in terms of how much reduction there is in the number of cases of influenza with vs without the vaccination, can be as low as 5 percent. You might for example elude the strains in the vaccination only to fall victim to a couple that are not. You may elude influenza and still get secondary respiratory infections from bacteria.

That's why I didn't bother until age, complicated by diabetes (which reduces the efficiency of your immune system) ganged up on me to cause my overall resistance to deteriorate in recent years. I get sick enough, often enough, easily enough, that even the modest help provided by flu vaccines is worth it, especially given the nominal (often zero) cost and the ready availability and simplicity of the procedure.

Had it not been for my horrible experience early in my adult life with the live vaccines, I might well have taken them all along as a matter of routine.
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