Hey folks, looking for some help..
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17-11-2012, 04:04 PM
Hey folks, looking for some help..
Hey all, been listening to the podcast on and off; good stuff. Been waiting to join the site for a while, but I finally got off my bum and made an account after getting into a debate with a couple of my more religious friends. I've been an agnostic atheist for a while, which they take it to mean total atheist. They don't like that.

Ended up getting more or less trashed in the debate, as they brought up numerous arguments I wasn't sure how to handle. (Apparently the Bible is as refutable as a history textbook, because just like the bible, you can never be certain what's factual and what's one guy's interpretation in a textbook. Therefore, since everything in history textbooks happened, everything in the Bible must be historical as well.)

I'm more or less joining so I can answer some of the questions they've put forward, and a few others I've had for several months now..any idea where I should post things related to that?

My own issues aside, I'm glad to be a part of your community. Good thing you have going on here, very neat!
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17-11-2012, 04:19 PM
RE: Hey folks, looking for some help..
Welcome, Grendl.
You'll probably want to start in the Atheism and Theism Forum. You'll see plenty of topics like what you're asking about. If you don't find anything specific, or want more personal interaction, start your own thread and let the discussions ensue! Smile

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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17-11-2012, 05:35 PM
RE: Hey folks, looking for some help..
Welcome to the forum, weekends are slow here. As any theist will tell ya, we drink and sodomise instead of attending church.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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17-11-2012, 05:50 PM
RE: Hey folks, looking for some help..
(17-11-2012 05:35 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Welcome to the forum, weekends are slow here. As any theist will tell ya, we drink and sodomise instead of attending church.
And barbecue babies. Drooling

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-11-2012, 08:23 PM
RE: Hey folks, looking for some help..
(17-11-2012 04:04 PM)Grendl Wrote:  Hey all, been listening to the podcast on and off; good stuff. Been waiting to join the site for a while, but I finally got off my bum and made an account after getting into a debate with a couple of my more religious friends. I've been an agnostic atheist for a while, which they take it to mean total atheist. They don't like that.

Ended up getting more or less trashed in the debate, as they brought up numerous arguments I wasn't sure how to handle. (Apparently the Bible is as refutable as a history textbook, because just like the bible, you can never be certain what's factual and what's one guy's interpretation in a textbook. Therefore, since everything in history textbooks happened, everything in the Bible must be historical as well.)

I'm more or less joining so I can answer some of the questions they've put forward, and a few others I've had for several months now..any idea where I should post things related to that?

My own issues aside, I'm glad to be a part of your community. Good thing you have going on here, very neat!
*facepalm*

Sure you can never be sure on the writers opinion in a history book BUT it's things like one writer says it was 20,000 v 10,000 where as another says it was 15,000 v 10,000 BUT both recognize that that battle happened.
The fact the battle happened is provable fact, it's just tiny things like numbers etc.. that are the sketchy parts.

The difference with the bible is that there is provable fact. You can't prove the flood happened. You can't prove giants and unicorns use to stroll around.
This is the difference between the history books and the bible. History books are different/same opinions based off facts, the bible is just a load of shit.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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17-11-2012, 11:51 PM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2012 01:28 AM by Dark Light.)
RE: Hey folks, looking for some help..
No, no, no muffs...well, yes, but still no. There are certain parts of the bible that are essentially historically correct. In many places the Bible used events to tell stories, so there is often a kernel of truth in them. Even a lot (not most, but a lot still) of Christians do not believe the details of the story are as important as the message that was being conveyed through the fictional tale. This is not unlike tales of ancient Greco-Roman mythology. Even the modern religious folks recognize that their was a purpose to these myths...whether they are based in fact or fiction is irrelevant. The Bible even occasionally has a good message behind a story, and based on real incidents that most historians will agree happened. The mistake comes from people taking a good story and turning into a god story. Ten thousand years from now religious people may be doing the same thing, looking back at Christianity and think "Wow, that is a good story with a good message. Their God was not real, but the message behind the stories are great...well some of 'em". Unfortunately, we must be very skeptical of what actually happened because the writers of the bible had a reason to make shit up. Therefore, it cannot stand on its own as fact, but it can help support other historical recordings.

Now, I don't know nearly enough about the christian bible to answer your questions as well as say, a hellbound preacher, but I will second the idea of making a thread in the Atheism and Theism forum.

I've rambled too much again...

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18-11-2012, 12:16 AM
RE: Hey folks, looking for some help..
Welcome Smile

The bible is not comparable to history books because it's facts are not cross checked and open to challenge, as are the facts reported in history books. Interpretations of what happened in history change all the time, as e.g. new archaeological evidence emerges. The Bible tells us what people at the time were *thinking about*. In that sense it's useful. It is not valid as a source of historical fact because it has not been subjected to critical analysis. The documents collected in the Bible must be treated with suspicion because for *all* of them the writers must be suspected of having some agenda in mind.
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18-11-2012, 06:39 AM
RE: Hey folks, looking for some help..
(17-11-2012 11:51 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  No, no, no muffs...well, yes, but still no. There are certain parts of the bible that are essentially historically correct. In many places the Bible used events to tell stories, so there is often a kernel of truth in them. Even a lot (not most, but a lot still) of Christians do not believe the details of the story are as important as the message that was being conveyed through the fictional tale. This is not unlike tales of ancient Greco-Roman mythology. Even the modern religious folks recognize that their was a purpose to these myths...whether they are based in fact or fiction is irrelevant. The Bible even occasionally has a good message behind a story, and based on real incidents that most historians will agree happened. The mistake comes from people taking a good story and turning into a god story. Ten thousand years from now religious people may be doing the same thing, looking back at Christianity and think "Wow, that is a good story with a good message. Their God was not real, but the message behind the stories are great...well some of 'em". Unfortunately, we must be very skeptical of what actually happened because the writers of the bible had a reason to make shit up. Therefore, it cannot stand on its own as fact, but it can help support other historical recordings.

Now, I don't know nearly enough about the christian bible to answer your questions as well as say, a hellbound preacher, but I will second the idea of making a thread in the Atheism and Theism forum.

I've rambled too much again...
London is a real place, doesn't make Harry Potter stories fact.
Pretty much any children's book has good messages, doesn't make the stories fact, last time I recalled barn yard animals couldn't talk and MALE COWS (aka Bulls) DO NOT HAVE UTTERS!!!.

I don't talk gay, I don't walk gay, it's like people don't even know I'm gay unless I'm blowing them.
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18-11-2012, 09:13 AM
Hey folks, looking for some help..
(18-11-2012 06:39 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(17-11-2012 11:51 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  No, no, no muffs...well, yes, but still no. There are certain parts of the bible that are essentially historically correct. In many places the Bible used events to tell stories, so there is often a kernel of truth in them. Even a lot (not most, but a lot still) of Christians do not believe the details of the story are as important as the message that was being conveyed through the fictional tale. This is not unlike tales of ancient Greco-Roman mythology. Even the modern religious folks recognize that their was a purpose to these myths...whether they are based in fact or fiction is irrelevant. The Bible even occasionally has a good message behind a story, and based on real incidents that most historians will agree happened. The mistake comes from people taking a good story and turning into a god story. Ten thousand years from now religious people may be doing the same thing, looking back at Christianity and think "Wow, that is a good story with a good message. Their God was not real, but the message behind the stories are great...well some of 'em". Unfortunately, we must be very skeptical of what actually happened because the writers of the bible had a reason to make shit up. Therefore, it cannot stand on its own as fact, but it can help support other historical recordings.

Now, I don't know nearly enough about the christian bible to answer your questions as well as say, a hellbound preacher, but I will second the idea of making a thread in the Atheism and Theism forum.

I've rambled too much again...
London is a real place, doesn't make Harry Potter stories fact.
Pretty much any children's book has good messages, doesn't make the stories fact, last time I recalled barn yard animals couldn't talk and MALE COWS (aka Bulls) DO NOT HAVE UTTERS!!!.

Your mom does.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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18-11-2012, 12:28 PM
RE: Hey folks, looking for some help..
Thanks for the kind welcome, folks; I'm already seeing discussion sprout.

I'll have myself a look around now.
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