Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
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05-02-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
Yes, and pseudointellectualism. I've heard WLC make some fucking terrible arguments, but he appears so confident, and acts like he knows his shit so much, that he convinces other theists he is right. That's my problem. WLC starts a Gish gallop and appears very calm and collected, and then Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens are rustling through their notes, sweating, and having trouble sticking to the topic. His opponents don't always have an immediate comeback, (n the cases of Harris and Hitchens, I think it's because they were overthinking rather than pulling shit out of their ass) but WLC always has a comeback, even if it's nonsense he pulls directly out of his ass. And that's why I think he's worse than theist scientists most of the time.

Also because people follow him. And those people, many of whom have no training in debating, start using him as an example to strive toward and they start to spout the same nonsense.

And it's not even that I disagree with what he says about God, it's that he's not even internally consistent and what he says usually doesn't even make sense or address the real questions asked. You're right, he is thoroughly destroyed by thinking people, but the people who follow him are not thinking people: they are nonthinking people who are convinced they are thinking people.

(I'm only talking about WLC and not the others because I'm more familiar with his bullshit.)
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05-02-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
(05-02-2013 09:30 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  The recent WLC talks got me thinking.

Why do y'all get so worked up over the likes of WLC, Ham, and Humphreys when they "debate" atheists and evolutionists? They are thoroughly dismantled in every way, shape, and form in any argument, but there is continued distress over them.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

See... to me... I think the atheist and secular scientific community should be more up in arms over the likes of Bakker, Collins, and McGrath... actual scientist who believe in God... these men actively contribute to the scientific community. They are a much biggest threat with bringing God into science than the YEC goofballs.

So... why come?
The debates with William Lane Craig are the ones who most irk me....and it's the Atheists in these debates that irk me. Time and time again these atheists walk straight into the trap and get hoplessly snarred by Craig's BS. It usually starts with a poorly-framed debate question and then allowing WLC to Gallop for 15-20 Minutes. By that time it's all over - there is so much Bull Shit that's been spread that no one could clean it up within the allotted time even if they did everything perfectly - even if they had a copy of WLC's debate transcript to study beforehand (and for the most part they they do, - for WLC has posted it)!

Nevertheless, Atheists continue to debate Craig within this hopeless format and continued to get rhetorically twisted in knots, and all the while, the people who should really know best what's happening - Craig's Philosophical Peers - say nothing. And...this just shows to me how utterly contemptible Philosophy has become as a field of study.

The only redeeming thing that happens as a result of these debates is that a lot of the more honest apologists come under the impression that WLC's makes valid points, and when they try to use them on their own sans the Gish Gallop and with a well-defined topic, they tend to get blasted right out of the water - as would happen to Craig if he were not able to Gallop. In this way, I think Craig has done more much more harm to Apologetics than good.
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09-02-2013, 10:54 PM
RE: Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
(05-02-2013 09:30 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  The recent WLC talks got me thinking.

Why do y'all get so worked up over the likes of WLC, Ham, and Humphreys when they "debate" atheists and evolutionists? They are thoroughly dismantled in every way, shape, and form in any argument, but there is continued distress over them.

Doesn't make any sense to me.

See... to me... I think the atheist and secular scientific community should be more up in arms over the likes of Bakker, Collins, and McGrath... actual scientist who believe in God... these men actively contribute to the scientific community. They are a much biggest threat with bringing God into science than the YEC goofballs.

So... why come?


Are these scientists you mentioned attempting to con literally thousands of people of all their money, are they trying to disrupt the advancement of science or culture?

Or are they simply trying to live out their lives with the Dissonance as best they can while contributing to the scientific community?


I figure most get upset over parasites like Ham, Two Citations Craig and their ilk because they are harmful and poisonous thieves whom in all likelihood know exactly how much damage they are causing and laugh gleefully at the thought as the go Scrooge McDuck all over their mountains of money.

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10-02-2013, 03:00 AM
RE: Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
It takes a simple and gullible mind to believe in sky-fairies. Many creationists are easily swayed by the words of mommy and daddy; of their local pastor; or of their Sunday-school teacher. Not once do these people ask for backing evidence. They just accept what they're told because, well, they're simple.

When people like WLC - with his big fancy words and his in-depth explanations of things and his intensely philosophical outpourings - begin to talk about how and why God exists, it provides a strong support for these simple people and their fantastical beliefs. I can't tell you how many times I've been debating with a creationist and, before they even bother to construct anything resembling a solid argument; they immediately point to WLC. They post a link to his debates, or they cite a quote of his. They fall back on him because he sounds like he knows what he's talking about - regardless of how idiotic and fallacious his arguments are.

For this reason, he and others like him are dangerous.

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10-02-2013, 09:10 AM
RE: Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
He annoys me 'cos his shit is so infantile. And then a friend who I otherwise respect will start saying shit like 'Have you watched that latest series by Kent Hovind. Maan, that is one intelligent guy.' And I will respectfully snort into my coffee and they'll say 'Hey Dog, now listen man, this guy'[s got his doctorate in Physics, and I know you did a few years in uni, but he's the real deal'.

That's why I loathe the fucker. Because he makes idiots out of people. Disguising bullshit as 'popular science'. Fuck him. Him, Kent Hovind, any other of those fuckers can just fuck off.
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10-02-2013, 09:17 AM
RE: Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
(10-02-2013 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  He annoys me 'cos his shit is so infantile. And then a friend who I otherwise respect will start saying shit like 'Have you watched that latest series by Kent Hovind. Maan, that is one intelligent guy.' And I will respectfully snort into my coffee and they'll say 'Hey Dog, now listen man, this guy'[s got his doctorate in Physics, and I know you did a few years in uni, but he's the real deal'.

That's why I loathe the fucker. Because he makes idiots out of people. Disguising bullshit as 'popular science'. Fuck him. Him, Kent Hovind, any other of those fuckers can just fuck off.


Who has a doctorate in physics? Not Hovind, not Craig.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-02-2013, 09:24 AM
RE: Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
(10-02-2013 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  That's why I loathe the fucker. Because he makes idiots out of people. Disguising bullshit as 'popular science'. Fuck him. Him, Kent Hovind, any other of those fuckers can just fuck off.
Chas, I think that instead of moderating my account, preventing me from posting and forbidding me to go into certain topics, you might want to look into this. This doesn't sound like no dog or moron that I know Dodgy

Quote:'Hey Dog, now listen man
I think my head just exploded a bit.

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10-02-2013, 09:36 AM
RE: Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
(10-02-2013 09:24 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(10-02-2013 09:10 AM)morondog Wrote:  That's why I loathe the fucker. Because he makes idiots out of people. Disguising bullshit as 'popular science'. Fuck him. Him, Kent Hovind, any other of those fuckers can just fuck off.
Chas, I think that instead of moderating my account, preventing me from posting and forbidding me to go into certain topics, you might want to look into this. This doesn't sound like no dog or moron that I know Dodgy

Quote:'Hey Dog, now listen man
I think my head just exploded a bit.

We have our eye on him. Dodgy



You are under constant scrutiny. Get over it. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-02-2013, 09:45 AM
RE: Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
(10-02-2013 09:36 AM)Chas Wrote:  We have our eye on him.
You and me both Dodgy

Quote:You are under constant scrutiny. Get over it.
[Image: tumblr_lvjj2xe1tY1qkjkqa.gif]


Can I at least pick who'll be doing the scuritinising?

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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10-02-2013, 09:45 AM
Hey heathens... c'mere. Question.
I get irked when I see yet another atheism advocate accept a challenge for a public debate. I prefer to see video exchange debates. These allow theists to Gish Gallop themselves into the ground. The opposition simply dissects their gallop into destructible giblets as necessary.

I'd like to see what happens to Craig if he were to accept such a challenge.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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