Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
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04-09-2014, 07:44 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 07:37 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(04-09-2014 07:32 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  Accepted - not so sure!?

Ummm... yes, they are. All three of them are very much accepted and respected in their particular field of research.

Quote:I think there is a whole lot of confirmation bias going on with christians who are scientists. You have to stray pretty far away from the scriptires that the religion is based upon in order to hold evolution to be true.

No. No, you don't. In fact, it's a much straighter path with no loopholes to accept evolution in conjunction with scripture.

Quote:Intellectual dishonesty plays a role too - I mean lets face it, no amount of scientific degrees will lead one to believe in rising from the dead and ascending into a place called heaven!

Point taken.

Where in the Bible is the evoltionary process outlined that explains modern humans on this earth? And those guys may very well be respected in THEIR FIELDS OF RESEARCH, but not in their faith claims - hence why never really talked about since it is fantasy.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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04-09-2014, 07:59 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 07:35 AM)Timber1025 Wrote:  And for every 3 so called "christian" scientists, there are thousands of others who would not accept or respect their fantastical views about jesus and gawd.

Why do you need a few scientists to make your myth more real to you KC?

You know what... never mind.

I can't ask a simple question without people bringing me into it.

Forget the topic. Forget the question.

I simply wanted to know what people thought about these 3 people because I thought it would be a good topic of conversation.

I'm not seeking to make anything "real" for me. The topic is exactly what I said it was.

As before, instead of engaging in real conversation about interesting topics and discussing them, the majority of TTA likes to focus on the theist and/or the religion and rant, derail, detract, and pound their chests and scream from the mountain tops how stupid the theist's opinions are.

My beliefs have ZERO to do with this topic. Why are they even being brought up?

I've tried and tried. And tried and tried. Now, I really give up. I've said that before, but I'm a hard-headed person... but now... I give up.

You really don't deserve actual, honest dialog with theists. You deserve your trolls. Enjoy them. Bye.

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04-09-2014, 08:08 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 07:32 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(04-09-2014 07:23 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  When theists brag about theology degrees to me it is like being an expert in the Star Wars series. What exactly are you an expert in?

What does this have to do with anything I asked?

Edit:

In fact, nothing you've said in this topic has addressed the question. All you've written is angsty rants about religion.

Oh stop, it is called growing up. Do you still believe adult women magically pop out of ribs? Do you really think there is evidence that when you die you'll get 72 virgins? Do you really think the earth is flat?

Angry FUCK YEA, just like if you had a friend walking around claiming the New York Yankees won the Superbowl. It would be no skin off my nose if these delusional people believed this crap, the problem is it gets political to the point of human division and even war. So pardon me for giving a fuck about the planet I live on being used for a game of "my sky daddy can beat up your sky daddy".

Please explain to me what is so wrong about giving up on myth? Humans don't believe Thor makes lightening? Humans live without believing in Apollo.

I think it is fucking childish and idiotic to blame the critic instead of blaming the people still living in the past when we have better tools to measure the nature of reality.

MOMMY MOMMY THE EVIL ATHEIST WONT STOP CRITICIZING MY ABSURD CLAIMS.

No I wont, just like I have no problem if you insisted your car ran on pixy dust.

You need to grow up.

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04-09-2014, 08:11 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
Man what got into you KC? You once could look from outside the bubble, but now you get defensive and pissy with no tollerance for the slightest of snide remarks, which you have no problem throwing around (as in your thread title). Sorry if it upset you asking a question that may or may not be pertinent in your eyes. You posted this in partial defense of you christian faith, which also was to get opinions concerning your question. I asked questions concerning both of these points.

You have to understand when theists post "hey what about these scientist who believe?" it comes across as promoting or defending theism, which is what this section of the forum is about - atheism vs theism.

Gotta walk on eggshells around here nowSad

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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04-09-2014, 08:12 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
You "why do you criticize Kaleidoscope logic? It makes people feel good"

Me, "Because we have telescopes now"

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04-09-2014, 08:21 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 07:39 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Lose the labels when you rightfully talk about confirmation bias. Humans evolutionary flawed perceptions in pattern seeking have always and unfortunately been part of our evolution. It is not something Christianity invented or owns a patent on.

Not only humans, all life seeks patterns. All behaviors are based on patterns of previous experiences. Even plants. Without pattern recognition there is no surviving. Humans just carry it into an abstract realm...

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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04-09-2014, 08:29 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
They're not any more respected than WLC and his ilk with regard to their faith - but at least they have some useful ideas in other fields that don't owe anything to cognitive dissonance...


"Name me a moral statement made or moral action performed that could not have been made or done, by a non-believer..." - Christopher Hitchens



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04-09-2014, 08:30 AM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2014 09:40 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 07:19 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Francis Collins - Bachelor's Degree in Chemistry from the University of Virginia / Ph.D. in Physical Chemistry from Yale / M.D. from University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill / one of the leaders of the Human Genome Project / founder of BioLogos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins


Alister McGrath - DPhil in Molecular Biophysics and a Doctorate of Divinity in Theology from Oxford University

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alister_McGrath


Robert Bakker - Ph.D. in Paleontology from Harvard University / one of the world's leading paleontologists / is the one of the "go to" guys in regards to dinosaurs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_T._Bakker


I'm asking because these men are obviously not blatant, outright fools like Hamsammich and WLC, but they claim the same religion as the aforementioned fools.

They are well respected in the science world and the topic of their religion rarely comes into play when they discuss science. I understand that this is probably because all three are either ECs or TEs, but the fact remains that they are Christians.

I have tried to model my Christianity after people such as this because they seem to be able to function socially in an amalgamated world (unlike Retard Boy and Super Dunce).

Is it because they don't shove their Christianity down people's throats? Or, because they believe in REAL science?

Just curious. Why is it that these guys (and myself) are respected and accepted in nearly every group of peoples and their Christian beliefs aren't brought up as a detraction from the work that they do (well... except for me... here on TTA... we have KC's Law, but I think people do that for S&Gs... mostly Dodgy mostly...)

The two non-religionists are dismissed. Using them to argue for religion is the "argumentum ad vericundiam". Being an expert in one field in no way grants anyone expertise in another.

McGrath is another matter. Have never read him, but I will see if our library has anything by him, and get back to you about my opinion. It says he's a "systematic theologian" from what I can see. Things are not looking good. Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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04-09-2014, 08:35 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
No, I think it's a good question...

I honestly wish more Christians would LISTEN to these people and a few others than WLC and Ken Ham.

There are others too, who don't throw their religion around when it comes to science and it should be applauded.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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04-09-2014, 08:37 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
Whoa, that went downhill fast.

I, as an individual, can't possibly divine how another person thinks.

How these three individuals and any other intelligent and socially functioning person holds on to undemonstrable beliefs while silmoutaneously being perfectly rational in all other aspects of their lives is interesting if not bewildering.

I used to believe and I have always considered myself a rational, semi-intelligent person. Eventually my quest for answers led me to discard my childhood indoctrination.

How is it that these three scientists accomodate their Christian beliefs with their professions? Perhaps the same way any other believer does, cognitive dissonance. I would venture to say that some individuals are more prone to convincing themselves that no conflict really exists or simply avoid coming to grips with it. Self-deception is not limited to stupid people.

definition
cognitive dissonance:
Mental conflict that occurs when beliefs or assumptions are contradicted by new information. The concept was introduced by the psychologist Leon Festinger (1919–89) in the late 1950s. He and later researchers showed that, when confronted with challenging new information, most people seek to preserve their current understanding of the world by rejecting, explaining away, or avoiding the new information or by convincing themselves that no conflict really exists. Cognitive dissonance is nonetheless considered an explanation for attitude change.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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