Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
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04-09-2014, 09:19 PM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
The fact that some scientist are christians neither lends nor detracts from the credibility of any faith. Most people in the US are christian. You don't champion janitors and bank tellers for doing their jobs Drinking Beverage .
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04-09-2014, 09:34 PM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 07:19 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Francis Collins - Bachelor's Degree in Chemistry from the University of Virginia / Ph.D. in Physical Chemistry from Yale / M.D. from University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill / one of the leaders of the Human Genome Project / founder of BioLogos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins


Alister McGrath - DPhil in Molecular Biophysics and a Doctorate of Divinity in Theology from Oxford University

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alister_McGrath


Robert Bakker - Ph.D. in Paleontology from Harvard University / one of the world's leading paleontologists / is the one of the "go to" guys in regards to dinosaurs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_T._Bakker


I'm asking because these men are obviously not blatant, outright fools like Hamsammich and WLC, but they claim the same religion as the aforementioned fools.

They are well respected in the science world and the topic of their religion rarely comes into play when they discuss science. I understand that this is probably because all three are either ECs or TEs, but the fact remains that they are Christians.

I have tried to model my Christianity after people such as this because they seem to be able to function socially in an amalgamated world (unlike Retard Boy and Super Dunce).

Is it because they don't shove their Christianity down people's throats? Or, because they believe in REAL science?

Just curious. Why is it that these guys (and myself) are respected and accepted in nearly every group of peoples and their Christian beliefs aren't brought up as a detraction from the work that they do (well... except for me... here on TTA... we have KC's Law, but I think people do that for S&Gs... mostly Dodgy mostly...)


Two things -

1) None of them are in complete agreement on their doctrines and theology.

2) None of them invoke the supernatural in their scientific research.



Not really a complaint. Just an observation.
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05-09-2014, 12:20 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
Hey KC.

On the one hand, you took a couple of initial, uncomprehending, rapid-fire first responders as representative the board at large. And you decided to leave the rest of us because of them.

On the other hand, you're kinda right. They do represent the board at large, because they're our first emissaries and ambassadors to newcomers. They are the welcome we have to offer, and I think that's why we get hardly anything but trolls any more.

So I sympathize. I've been kinda tempted to do the same myself, for the same reason. I don't see how that'll make it any better, but then, I don't see anything else that will.

Happy travels, hope you find whatever you're looking for.
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05-09-2014, 06:55 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 05:11 PM)Simon Moon Wrote:  I don't have a problem with any theist that does science, as long as the leave their faith based beliefs outside the lab and do actual science. Which seems true for Collins and Bakker. Not sure about McGrath.

I'm actually not sure that calling these scientists 'apologists' is accurate, though. The do science, not travel the world making excuses for the various logical and factual problems with their religion and 'holy' text.

What I'd love to know though, is how they harmonize their acceptance of evolution and common descent, with their religious beliefs?

Since they understand the we descended from a common ancestor, and not dust man and rib woman, that means there was no temptation by a talking snake, eating of the fruit, no original sin, no need for Yahweh to sacrifice himself to himself in order to forgive the sin (that we don't have).

Unless you are a bible literalist type it is quite easy to harmonize science and religion. I was of the non-literalist variety. With me science explained how things worked, the creation story was just a story to teach a moral lesson, etc.
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05-09-2014, 06:59 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
*reads thread*

... Great job, guys... great job...

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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05-09-2014, 07:16 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2014 07:59 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 01:00 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I'm done here (TTA), but I just wanted to clear something up before I logged out for good (still have to log out of my tablet at home).

The topic title was a tongue-in-cheek joke. Whenever I ask for opinions from atheists, I always mock the common belief that atheists are sinful heathens. I know better, and in fact, it's a term of endearment.

Maybe I took for granted the amount of people that understood this, but ask anyone who read the title that knows me or has been communicating with me over the past 3 years and they will tell you the same.

Sorry you took it the wrong way... it was actually a compliment to atheists.

Oh well.

C'est la vie.

Off in search of new endeavors.

Don't go far. We need updates on the kids and the dinos.
(You need to add the new big one to the book)

So our library had none of McGrath's books. So I ordered two of them from Amazon. One of them "The Twilight of Atheism" ... ahem, which will be interesting since it's growing, not declining. From what I've seen so far, he's into intellectual history, (but not ancient history), and he's sort of an expert on the Reformation, (maybe ??).
Turns out he's a big fan of C.S. Lewis. (I'm not.) So I'm going to honestly give him a shot, and try to see if he has something to say.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-09-2014, 07:41 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 07:19 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Francis Collins - Bachelor's Degree in Chemistry from the University of Virginia / Ph.D. in Physical Chemistry from Yale / M.D. from University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill / one of the leaders of the Human Genome Project / founder of BioLogos

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins


Alister McGrath - DPhil in Molecular Biophysics and a Doctorate of Divinity in Theology from Oxford University

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alister_McGrath


Robert Bakker - Ph.D. in Paleontology from Harvard University / one of the world's leading paleontologists / is the one of the "go to" guys in regards to dinosaurs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_T._Bakker


I'm asking because these men are obviously not blatant, outright fools like Hamsammich and WLC, but they claim the same religion as the aforementioned fools.

They are well respected in the science world and the topic of their religion rarely comes into play when they discuss science. I understand that this is probably because all three are either ECs or TEs, but the fact remains that they are Christians.

I have tried to model my Christianity after people such as this because they seem to be able to function socially in an amalgamated world (unlike Retard Boy and Super Dunce).

Is it because they don't shove their Christianity down people's throats? Or, because they believe in REAL science?

Just curious. Why is it that these guys (and myself) are respected and accepted in nearly every group of peoples and their Christian beliefs aren't brought up as a detraction from the work that they do (well... except for me... here on TTA... we have KC's Law, but I think people do that for S&Gs... mostly Dodgy mostly...)

They are respected because they are real scientists who have successfully compartmentalized their irrational beliefs from their rational ones.

And there is no single 'Christianity', so saying someone is 'Christian' doesn't actually mean much.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-09-2014, 07:43 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 07:37 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
Quote:I think there is a whole lot of confirmation bias going on with christians who are scientists. You have to stray pretty far away from the scriptires that the religion is based upon in order to hold evolution to be true.

No. No, you don't. In fact, it's a much straighter path with no loopholes to accept evolution in conjunction with scripture.

That might be an interesting topic for another thread. I, for one, don't believe that is true.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-09-2014, 07:50 AM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2014 12:16 PM by Chas.)
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 10:18 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(04-09-2014 10:07 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  No, not pattern seeking. They don't seek patterns. They have evolved to do what is best suited to their environment.

Let's not anthropomorphize plants.

Pattern recognition. They would not have evolved to fit so many different environments if they had no pattern recognition, they would long have died out. It has nothing to do with anthropomorphization.

Bacteria recognize patterns or they would not mutate to adapt to antibiotics.

Noting can ever evolve without pattern recognition.

Nope. That is not at all how evolution works.

Bacteria don't recognize squat.
Random mutation that provides resistance either occurs in the population or not. If it does, even to a slight degree, then that bacterium will survive and multiply.

The ones that aren't resistant die - they do not adapt. Only the survivors reproduce to create a new population of bacteria that have some level of resistance.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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05-09-2014, 07:52 AM
RE: Hey heathens... want your sinful opinions these Christian apologists.
(04-09-2014 10:24 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(04-09-2014 10:21 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  BULL FUCKING SHIT!

If you believe a mere "pattern" is an act of "seeking" then our solar system is pattern seeking. Organization by itself is not "seeking".

What is it with the seeking? There is not even a definition for that. I keep talking about recognition. Are you saying that evolution can happen without organisms reacting to repetitious stimuli?

Actually, yes. What you describe is learning and is not passed on genetically.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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