Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
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12-10-2015, 06:33 AM
Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
The one where the kid had the toy gun, the cops just rolled up right next to him jumped out of their car and just shot and killed him. Remember that? If not you'll probably remember the video (which I CBF finding right now).

Well yea, the cops just got let off.

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12-10-2015, 06:48 AM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
From what I've read of the situation, this incident does appear to be different from the other recent police shootings.

According to the CNN report, the officers where told the suspect had a firearm. They were not told the suspect was a juvenile or that the pistol was probably fake.
When confronted, the suspect reached for his waistband, where the gun was concealed.

IF all that happened as stated, then the police where justified. That's a big if however. I also think that such cases should be investigated by at least three persons all from outside the areas involved. No police departments investigating themselves.

That's my opinion, FWIW...

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12-10-2015, 07:30 AM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
(12-10-2015 06:48 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  From what I've read of the situation, this incident does appear to be different from the other recent police shootings.

According to the CNN report, the officers where told the suspect had a firearm. They were not told the suspect was a juvenile or that the pistol was probably fake.
When confronted, the suspect reached for his waistband, where the gun was concealed.

IF all that happened as stated, then the police where justified. That's a big if however. I also think that such cases should be investigated by at least three persons all from outside the areas involved. No police departments investigating themselves.

That's my opinion, FWIW...

Yea I agree that the cops had no reason to think the gun was fake. If I was the judge in this case I likely would have given the same ruling.

BUT, the issue I have is that the cops just drove right up to him, if he had a gun they shouldn't have done that. They should have kept their distance to better judge the situation. If they'd done that that kid would still be alive today.

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12-10-2015, 04:25 PM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
(12-10-2015 06:33 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  The one where the kid had the toy gun, the cops just rolled up right next to him jumped out of their car and just shot and killed him. Remember that? If not you'll probably remember the video (which I CBF finding right now).

Well yea, the cops just got let off.

That doesn't really narrow down which incident you're talking about unfortunately.

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12-10-2015, 06:00 PM (This post was last modified: 12-10-2015 06:12 PM by goodwithoutgod.)
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
(12-10-2015 07:30 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 06:48 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  From what I've read of the situation, this incident does appear to be different from the other recent police shootings.

According to the CNN report, the officers where told the suspect had a firearm. They were not told the suspect was a juvenile or that the pistol was probably fake.
When confronted, the suspect reached for his waistband, where the gun was concealed.

IF all that happened as stated, then the police where justified. That's a big if however. I also think that such cases should be investigated by at least three persons all from outside the areas involved. No police departments investigating themselves.

That's my opinion, FWIW...

Yea I agree that the cops had no reason to think the gun was fake. If I was the judge in this case I likely would have given the same ruling.

BUT, the issue I have is that the cops just drove right up to him, if he had a gun they shouldn't have done that. They should have kept their distance to better judge the situation. If they'd done that that kid would still be alive today.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/10/us/tamir-r...g-reports/

True...the kid would also be alive today if his parents had taught him walking around the playground with a gun tucked in his pants was a bad idea....at some point we have to take responsibility for our actions, and the inactions of parents. I have had that conversation with my children....don't play with toy guns outside the house (in fact we dont have toy guns in my house anymore, and havent for years, those days unfortunately should be long gone in this crazy fucking society), if a cop approaches you for any reason you keep your hands wide and away from your body, do what he/she says, and speak clearly. Ask to be able to contact us (parents) as soon as possible. Don't be a smart ass, there is this thing called court, if the cop violates or bullies you, we have legal options, that isn't the time to play smartass as things can go bad. Don't run. Stand there, keep your hands away from your body and follow orders politely.

Simple guidance. It would be nice if we lived in a utopia where cops smiled at people while whistling and walking up and down the sidewalk checking doors, but that isn't the reality. it would be nice if we lived in a world where cops arent executed, stalked, ambushed and murdered while pumping gas, but that isnt the reality. So I explained crystal clear to all of my kids what to do when interacting with authorities. It would be nice if we lived in a world where that wasn't neccessary perhaps. This kid getting shot is a tragedy...sickens me, but I dont think the police rolled up and intentionally shot a young boy holding a toy gun, I think the police responded to a call of a young man pulling his gun out of his pants, and walking around the area. The caller told the dispatchers it may be a toy....may be a toy, whether that information was subsequently provided to the responding officers or not (supposedly it wasnt) isnt relevant. Those cops want to go home at the end of the shift to their families. If some one has what appears to be a gun in their waist band, and we roll up and jump out of the car, and for whatever reason, the person in front of us makes what seems to be a move for the gun, deadly force is authorized. Contrary to popular belief, we shouldnt have to wait to see muzzle flash as they pull the trigger to engage. I doubt these officers went back high fiving their peers because they inadvertently shot a 12 yo boy. it is a tragedy all around.

You can say after the fact, well they should have done this or that differently. But the bottom line is, they had justified use of deadly force. They can not pause and try to figure out if the gun is real. This child would be alive if his parents had given him necessary guidance for the world we live in today. No, i am not "victim blaming" I am situation blaming...if the kid hadnt been walking around with a gun in his pants, pulling it in and out, and then moved towards the gun when the cops rolled up he would be alive today....it is horrible, but it is what it is unfortunately. As parents who want to see our kids grow up, we have to talk to them about these things. The cops are more on edge now then ever, and for good reason.

From the linked story:"

Kimberly Crawford, a 20-year veteran of the FBI and a former instructor at the agency's academy, writes that when the officers approached Tamir they were responding to a report of a male suspect with a gun he kept pulling from his pants.

"The after-acquired information -- that the individual was 12 years old, and the weapon in question was an 'airsoft gun'-- is not relevant to a constitutional review of Officer Loehmann's actions," she writes in one of the other reports posted Saturday.

She says Loehmann was required to make a threat assessment and a split-second decision on whether to shoot.

"His response was a reasonable one," she writes."

I know, my opinion will not be popular, but the wringing of the hands and blaming of the cops is getting old in regards to a case like this.

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2015 so far....

Line of Duty Deaths: 99

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12-10-2015, 06:12 PM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
I agree with good without God.

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It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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12-10-2015, 06:18 PM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
(12-10-2015 07:30 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  
(12-10-2015 06:48 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  From what I've read of the situation, this incident does appear to be different from the other recent police shootings.

According to the CNN report, the officers where told the suspect had a firearm. They were not told the suspect was a juvenile or that the pistol was probably fake.
When confronted, the suspect reached for his waistband, where the gun was concealed.

IF all that happened as stated, then the police where justified. That's a big if however. I also think that such cases should be investigated by at least three persons all from outside the areas involved. No police departments investigating themselves.

That's my opinion, FWIW...



BUT, the issue I have is that the cops just drove right up to him, if he had a gun they shouldn't have done that. They should have kept their distance to better judge the situation. If they'd done that that kid would still be alive today.

My thought on that part was I dont think they knew until they saw him right next to their car where he was..."kid with a gun in the park" or whatever doesnt dictate where exactly....you roll up fast because it is a call about a kid with a gun....I think it is possible they didn't see him until they were on him...know what I mean? Just a thought, and it could be wrong..

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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13-10-2015, 05:55 AM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
We weren't there.

The grand jury got whatever evidence was available.

....

Seems like they're in a better position to make the call............

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13-10-2015, 05:23 PM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
Quote:True...the kid would also be alive today if his parents had taught him walking around the playground with a gun tucked in his pants was a bad idea....at some point we have to take responsibility for our actions, and the inactions of parents.

Sure to an extent. People do stupid shit for all sorts of reasons, mental illness, desperation, bad upbringing etc... This kid was exactly that, a kid. Yea he shouldn't have done this or that but he was a kid. If the excuse is always "well he shouldn't have been doing this or that" than you create issues because it's not always someone being a dick for the sake of being a dick. Police are trained, it's their job and so they should be held to a higher standard to handle situations far better than what they are doing in the States.

I agree that the Police were in that situation right to shot him. They didn't know if it was real or fake. Fair call. The issue I have is that the officers never assessed the situation, they herd "guy" "gun" "park" and rode around like a bunch of idiot cowboys. Speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if they 'wanted' to shoot someone. The kid shouldn't have been waving a gun around but the Police shouldn't have done what they did and the Police, IMO, have a duty to behold to a higher standard and so would be responsible in this case.

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13-10-2015, 05:43 PM (This post was last modified: 13-10-2015 05:52 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
(12-10-2015 06:33 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  The one where the kid had the toy gun, the cops just rolled up right next to him jumped out of their car and just shot and killed him. Remember that? If not you'll probably remember the video (which I CBF finding right now).

Well yea, the cops just got let off.

Not yet.

(13-10-2015 05:55 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  We weren't there.

The grand jury got whatever evidence was available.

Grand jury has yet to meet. I ain't a lawyer like BnW but I'd argue that release of those "independent" reviews prior to the grand jury was prejudicial at best and prosecutorial misconduct at worst. I'd argue they aren't admissible.

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