Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
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15-10-2015, 11:02 AM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
(15-10-2015 10:57 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  Cops drove up and blew a kid away within 2 seconds.

Fuck 'em. They're murderers.

So you think they should have to wait until they're being shot at?????

Bottom line -- you KNOW the gun was fake.

They didn't.

Two seconds is a very, very long time......

think not??? A guy can shoot 6 shots, reload, and shoot 6 more in under three seconds.




.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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15-10-2015, 11:08 AM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
(15-10-2015 10:48 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Videos buffer forever for me... Sllllloooooowwww connection.

...

Drunk dude with gun in hands??? A well trained cop will have gun drawn - pointed center mass at threat -- finger OFF trigger on side of weapon -- order subject to drop weapon.

If subject does not comply - it's pretty much up to the officer's judgement of what to do.... If he thinks he can "talk the subject down" -- great.... If the subject gets off a quick lucky shot - and kills the officer -- you're gonna be ok with that???? And what if the subject kills somebody else with random gunfire??? The cop is responsible for that too......

.....
Bottom line -- LEO's HAVE to have some degree of protection from the idiocy that the public subjects them to......

Or -- we can get rid of cops -- and you take care of your own damned self...

Completely false dilemma. You should know better!

Asking officers to not act as executioners unless there is a clear and unquestionable threat to their lives is not the same as saying we don't want cops.

To kill a KNOWN serial killer takes numerous trials and appeals, years of time and effort by teams of people dedicated to making sure we don't get it wrong (and even then, we often do, as has been shown by numerous posthumous exonerations)... yet when a cop says he felt he had to kill a 12 year old holding a pellet gun, we say "best give them the benefit of the doubt".

Like we did with the cops who shot the guy while on his cellphone in a WalMart, holding an unloaded BB gun he had picked up off the shelf at that WalMart. As you can see in the video, he's not even aware they're there before they blast him.

As you can see in the video of the 12 year old, he was making no threatening gestures when the police rolled up to point blank range and shot him. His hands are both plainly visible in front of him, not hidden from the view of the officers. He is walking in a straight line from the bench where he had been sitting toward the point where the cops suddenly zoom in with their car and dive out, already shooting.

(See at the 1m 20second mark.)



"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-10-2015, 11:16 AM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
Here's the video of the man being executed while on his cellphone in the back of the store, talking to his girlfriend and holding a BB gun he picked up off a shelf in the store.

Full video here, execution at 1:28 or so.



"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-10-2015, 11:29 AM (This post was last modified: 15-10-2015 11:33 AM by onlinebiker.)
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
Completely false dilemma. You should know better!

Asking officers to not act as executioners unless there is a clear and unquestionable threat to their lives is not the same as saying we don't want cops.-

-----------------------

"Clear and unquestionable?""" Where did you cook THAT up???? UNQUESTIONABLE??????? So -- you gotta wait till the guy pointing that AK-47 at you shoots you -- because it MIGHT be unloaded???? Get fucking real...

-----------------

To kill a KNOWN serial killer takes numerous trials and appeals, years of time and effort by teams of people dedicated to making sure we don't get it wrong (and even then, we often do, as has been shown by numerous posthumous exonerations)... yet when a cop says he felt he had to kill a 12 year old holding a pellet gun, we say "best give them the benefit of the doubt".

------------Yeah - and he's unarmed in a prison -- different than a guy with a gun..

.

Like we did with the cops who shot the guy while on his cellphone in a WalMart, holding an unloaded BB gun he had picked up off the shelf at that WalMart. As you can see in the video, he's not even aware they're there before they blast him.
----------------

Toldja -- I can't look at videos - my connection is too slow......
----------------------
As you can see in the video of the 12 year old, he was making no threatening gestures when the police rolled up to point blank range and shot him. His hands are both plainly visible in front of him, not hidden from the view of the officers. He is walking in a straight line from the bench where he had been sitting toward the point where the cops suddenly zoom in with their car and dive out, already shooting.
---------------------

I saw it on TV quite some time back -- and I thought it was far too grainy to actually tell much of anything......

But -- if you're a monday morning quarterback -- you can keep replaying it - till you can convince yourself of the "Truth ™"

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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15-10-2015, 11:45 AM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
(15-10-2015 11:29 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Completely false dilemma. You should know better!

Asking officers to not act as executioners unless there is a clear and unquestionable threat to their lives is not the same as saying we don't want cops.-

-----------------------

"Clear and unquestionable?""" Where did you cook THAT up???? UNQUESTIONABLE??????? So -- you gotta wait till the guy pointing that AK-47 at you shoots you -- because it MIGHT be unloaded???? Get fucking real...

-----------------

To kill a KNOWN serial killer takes numerous trials and appeals, years of time and effort by teams of people dedicated to making sure we don't get it wrong (and even then, we often do, as has been shown by numerous posthumous exonerations)... yet when a cop says he felt he had to kill a 12 year old holding a pellet gun, we say "best give them the benefit of the doubt".

------------Yeah - and he's unarmed in a prison -- different than a guy with a gun..

.

Like we did with the cops who shot the guy while on his cellphone in a WalMart, holding an unloaded BB gun he had picked up off the shelf at that WalMart. As you can see in the video, he's not even aware they're there before they blast him.
----------------

Toldja -- I can't look at videos - my connection is too slow......
----------------------
As you can see in the video of the 12 year old, he was making no threatening gestures when the police rolled up to point blank range and shot him. His hands are both plainly visible in front of him, not hidden from the view of the officers. He is walking in a straight line from the bench where he had been sitting toward the point where the cops suddenly zoom in with their car and dive out, already shooting.
---------------------

I saw it on TV quite some time back -- and I thought it was far too grainy to actually tell much of anything......

But -- if you're a monday morning quarterback -- you can keep replaying it - till you can convince yourself of the "Truth ™"

I'm sorry you can't see the videos, but the rest of us can. I can see both victims' hands in the grainy videos, where cops arrived firing at them before they were even aware of the presence of the officers.

The only fantasy version of The Truth™ here is the person who thinks that cops are only firing when they see someone "pointing that AK-47 at you".

Cops are certainly more in danger than ever before, I'm not arguing that they're not... but after a long history of police brutality and a willingness to "shoot first, look for justifications later", and of police being acquitted even when the evidence against them is overwhelming because the prosecutors are in their back pockets, you are going to have to expect a more hostile reaction to the approach of police officers in areas where there has been decades of systematic abuse of police power. That doesn't make it right, only expected.

The simple fact is that we hold military soldiers in occupied countries to higher levels of proof of danger from civilians before they can begin firing (under standard RoE; obviously exceptions exist in "weapons-free" active combat zones) than we do our own police forces, especially when the person who is being shot at is dark-skinned.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-10-2015, 12:03 PM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
And when cops ARE found guilty -- in a court of law -- not the court of public fucking opinion -- that makes up it's mind after watching a grainy surveillance video -- and decide said cop is a "murderer" --- but by a JURY who actually has the best facts of the incident --- THEN yeah --- a cop should go to prison just like everyone else........

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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15-10-2015, 12:11 PM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
(15-10-2015 12:03 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  And when cops ARE found guilty -- in a court of law -- not the court of public fucking opinion -- that makes up it's mind after watching a grainy surveillance video -- and decide said cop is a "murderer" --- but by a JURY who actually has the best facts of the incident --- THEN yeah --- a cop should go to prison just like everyone else........

Therein lies the problem. There are no special prosecutors for these situations, in almost every instance, but instead the Grand Jury and/or Jury is given a slanted case in favor of the defendant because the DA and cops are natural allies. The DA relies on those same cops to make 99% of his other cases!

I did not mean to suggest you think that cops should be given special passes to behave as they wish at all times, or to avoid jail when they deserve jail. In fact, I am counting on you holding that belief, when I point out that they are often not indicted when it is clear that they should be under any fair system. The conclusion, then, is that the system is not fair, but rigged by the State to protect and cover for the actions of the State's agents.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-10-2015, 12:24 PM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
(15-10-2015 09:57 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I dunno, looks like maybe 50 feet or so.



Shows the stupidity of USA law.
He has the right to openly carry a gun.

Quite predictably and reasonably, people see the guy with a gun in a public place and get scared, they call the cops.

The cops come, they see the immediate threat, but can't do anything because stupid law says the guy has the right to wander round public places openly carrying a gun.

Police have to resort to stupid jay-walking laws rather than focus on the immediate threat (guy with gun in public place)

USA is stupid!
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15-10-2015, 12:32 PM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
I rewatched the video of the Tamir Rice shooting. I have the same reaction I had the first time I saw it: I can't tell a damn thing from it. I do question the "2 seconds" comments because the video was time compressed. It wasn't 2 seconds, but it certainly wasn't an extended period of time. I'm not sure why that matters, though. At the point the police felt there was a threat to them and the public, they can use deadly force. How long they wait to get to that point is irrelevant. The suspect and circumstances dictate when they take action, not a stopwatch.

If the cops shoot knowing there is no threat, that's murder. If the cops shoot and a reasonable officer in similar situations wouldn't have felt there was a threat, you may have manslaughter or negligent homicide. Here, maybe you have the latter, but, from all I read, its going to be damn hard to ever prove they didn't think there was a reasonable threat.

I'm not sure why people are throwing out other shootings. Whether or not other cops have used unreasonable force and shot people in other situations is irrelevant. This is about what these two cops did in this situation. Bad actions by other people have no bearing.

I have no idea what these cops were thinking. Maybe the kid being black made them quicker to shoot. Maybe the situation is exactly what they claim. I'm not a mind reader. But, based on what has been made public, my take is its just a tragic mistake. And, even if it is a little more than that, I think proving that in a criminal case is near impossible.

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When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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15-10-2015, 01:42 PM
RE: Hey remember that 12 year old black kid that got killed by white cops?
It's not just my time as a criminal defense lawyer that has turned me against cops. I have also defended a lot of cops in criminal cases and I can tell you that cops have as many criminals in their profession as do lawyers and the general public. I always enjoyed defending cops because they can convince themselves that they are the good guys even when there is a truckload of evidence telling them that they are the bad guys. I had a couple of psychiatrists who worked for me regularly on cop cases. Cops were hard to represent because they tend to be more narcissistic than even lawyers and doctors. Among other things, when they are accused of something, their almost universal response is to react with extreme anger even when there is a boatload of evidence against them. They do not think rationally and it takes some serious psychiatric power to bring them to the rational world even for the short term.
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