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20-11-2012, 12:40 PM
Hi
Hi folks, I recently had a little debate over the meaning of atheist over on another forum where I came to realize that my currently held beliefs were inaccurate. it seems the more I research the more I find myself aligned with the ideas of atheism.

I still probably hold some beliefs that may well be inaccurate so I will enjoy reading through the threads to see where the last vestiges of my beliefs will fall.

As I have always been fond of saying "Beliefs are fragile" they tend to change when you gain more knowledge.
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20-11-2012, 01:02 PM
RE: Hi
Welcome!

Mind elaborating on these beliefs?

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20-11-2012, 01:13 PM
RE: Hi
Welcome to the fold tender nugget.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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20-11-2012, 02:19 PM
RE: Hi
howdy!

So what are these beliefs of yours that you think should fall?

People here love a good debate. Especially so if it helps someone sort things.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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20-11-2012, 05:30 PM
RE: Hi
Thank's for the welcome folk's
I have been through the whole born again christian thing and then I actually decided to really read the bible omg well that was an eye opener. Funny how you can read something without actually paying attention to what it says.

I went from there to looking at some of the new age idea's but most of the people that profess those beliefs are more screwed up than the Christian's so kinda came to the conclusion that the whole God idea doesn't make much sense regardless of how you package it.

I guess being new to atheism I am just examining how many of my other beliefs will turn out to be false, my first reaction to realizing that the God of the bible wasn't real was to say to myself ok the bible isn't real but that doesn't mean there is no God however I can find no argument to support that view.


Recently I have been trying to understand the amount of stuff written about the afterlife ect, I guess I am wondering if it is all fake or if there is any truth to any of it.

I guess i'm probably not the first here to go through some of this when you realize that your previously held beliefs are false and i'm probably not the first to try come up with new theory's to fill the gaps so I look forward to reading through some of the threads here and hearing about some of your experiences.
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20-11-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: Hi
First of all, welcome to the forums. Now get me a coke; it goes very well with you...

To briefly answer your question about the afterlife, sadly, no, there is no afterlife. Certainly there is no evidence for it (as you've recognized, biblical evidence for an afterlife is not really evidence at all).

However, there is evidence against an afterlife. However, all evidence against it is anecdotal (such as, why has nobody ever, credibly, returned as a ghost to tell us what it's like?) or philosophical (such as, if there is no creator then we really are just bio-mechanical machines of flesh and bone and such, therefore there cannot be a soul to continue when we die).

But there is medical evidence too, though it's still anecdotal medical evidence. Such as the fact that people with brain damage don't have their "soul" do their thinking for them - by that I mean, if our soul could go to heaven and meet the other souls of our departed friends and family, and if our souls could recognize each other and carry on heavenly conversations, then why can't our souls do that right now, here on earth, when we have (for example) Alzheimer's disease, or brain damage from a car accident, etc.? And if our soul is so incapable of interacting with us to remember simple things like the name of my wife of 50 years, then how can it interact with us in any meaningful way like guiding our morality or steering us toward a heavenly afterlife instead of a hellish one? And if none of that is possible for our soul while we're mortal, then what evidence or reason do we even have to assume we have one at all?

Sadly, none of that disproves souls or afterlife, but it sure does weigh heavily against such things, and with no supporting evidence or even credible supporting arguments on the other side, it's looking grim for the whole afterlife hypothesis.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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20-11-2012, 06:56 PM
RE: Hi
It is unfortunate that there does not seem to be any scientifically verified accounts of life after death though there does seem to be an abundance of claims, it certainly appears that a lot of those can be dismissed as fraudulent in particular those that spout biblical claims, though I would be hesitant at saying nobody has ever returned as it is impossible to disprove all of the claims made.

This is probably one area where the sheer volume of claims seems to provide some semblance of credibility, some from people who certainly appear to be credible witnesses, though the same could be said for people who claim personal experiences with Jesus and the bible can certainly be shown to be the work of man rather than God.

Given that science now seems to be supporting the idea of multi-dimensional universes the possibility that the soul or consciousness could exist in a separate dimension to the one we currently reside in can't be ruled out completely though i'm not sure I want to put to much faith in the idea without some hard evidence.
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20-11-2012, 07:19 PM
RE: Hi
The best that science has had to offer dealing with the life after death scenarios was detailing the process our brain goes through when we are dying. The scientists behind the study found that our brain releases chemicals that could easily account for the sense of euphoria, and the light at the end of the tunnel as our brains shut off.
Check out this Nat Geo article .

As for if there actually is life after death, science isn't likely to be able to verifiably prove something like that given the explanation of such an event. It would be beyond our capabilities to test. Science can only tell us proveably what happens to our bodies and that there is no evidence for a soul or afterlife.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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20-11-2012, 07:28 PM
RE: Hi
(20-11-2012 06:56 PM)Rum Wrote:  though I would be hesitant at saying nobody has ever returned as it is impossible to disprove all of the claims made.

Note that I did say "credibly". That eliminates all the anecdotal "Hey, my dead grandma's ghost came and gave me her recipe for fruitcake" (see what I did there?) stories.

For me, "credibly" means that some ghost shows up, somewhere, with plenty of witnesses and hangs around long enough for some photo ops and an interview, on camera. Live TV. Even that wouldn't convince me, because I've seen Haley Joel Osment talk to lots of dead people - I would probably need more than one "credible" event to assuage my skeptical nature and convince me that it wasn't just an elaborate hoax or maybe another M. Knight Shyamalan film.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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20-11-2012, 07:53 PM
RE: Hi
Yep I caught that Aseptic Skeptic thanks for the reply it's one of the questions where the I don't know has to be the answer I guess as there is no "credible" proof.

What I do find interesting about those experiences lucradis even though the cause may well be CO2 it fails to provide any explanation why so many have reported very similar things with some even having out of body experiences where they have witnessed themselves on the theater table.
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