Hi, I'm a Christian
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15-11-2011, 08:26 PM
RE: Hi, I'm a Christian
Another question to ask mega (if he comes back):

Let's assume there really was a supernatural force influencing the cards in your favor. How do you know it was God? Christians typically believe in lots of supernatural beings--angels, demons, the Devil. How do you know it wasn't Satan making those cards come up, thereby keeping you playing yugioh and wasting your time when you could be doing something more productive with it?

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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15-11-2011, 08:45 PM
RE: Hi, I'm a Christian
Somehow I missed that you actually commented on my post following your yugioh post. I find the level of hypocrisy in your statement about the priest comment I made almost totally astounding. You yourself assert. Without saying it outright that there was a force behind your luck with yugioh. Then you say that everyone has free will (thereby dodging answering the ethics of god question I layed out) and that people are too quick to assign negative results to god. But you assigned your positive and mundane results to god! That is so ridiculous. Hands down. It's one of the most irritating commonalities shared by the devout. Blame the good on god and even citing a form of favoritism by god but anything negative comes along and suddenly it's not gods fault. I don't get it and I find it irritating. Not you personally mind you just that mindset. It's so biased and unfair. Like only those who truly believe can say what events god is behind. Anyone who says god may have had a hand in something unpleasant is suddenly not a believer. Not that I'm saying you believe that but fuck man it's retarded.

But let's get back to my original question of how you came to the conclusion of Christianity and that this god who favored you over a starving child could be worth worship. Because I'm interested in a real answer. If you still don't understand my question let me know an i'll try to rephrase it so it makes more sense.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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15-11-2011, 09:23 PM
RE: Hi, I'm a Christian
(15-11-2011 01:38 PM)lucradis Wrote:  This also does not mean that the majority of us want you to go away. I personally want to actually engage you in civil discussion. I find the differences in mentality so fascinating that I don't want to refuse the chance. In discussion form mind you. Nothing is one sided so I don't want to have a one sided conversation. No assumptions of right or wrong, hell no right or wrong even. Just a back and forth and maybe some mutual understanding or learning.

What do you say?

Well, that all sounds nice. Just keep in mind, if you're going to be asking me questions about what I believe and why I think that way, it probably comes from the Bible, which I hold that the Bible is true and free of contradictions. That may not be your view of the Bible, but it's mine. You've been warned though, if you're asking for my perspective, you will probably be offeneded, due to our vastly different belief systems. Same goes for everyone here. Just something for you to be prepared for.

Also, you guys can demand proof and evidence for my beliefs all you want. You guys don't have to provide proof or evidnece for your belief (or lack of belief if you want to be technical), then I don't need proof and evidence for every little perspective I give you. If you ask for my perspective, you get it, proof and evidence don't need to be attached to my perspective. Take it or leave it, but my perspective is and will be my perspective.

(15-11-2011 01:49 PM)free2011 Wrote:  Well that is definitely less than I was expecting. Although I do appreciate your honesty. I am truly not trying to bash you or your beliefs. You have stepped up when many would not and this is great incite for me into the mind of a theist.

However, this really is the kind of thing that confuses me about religious people. Out of the 7 billion people in the world, many starving and dying horrible deaths, your loving god chose to help you out with a card game. How many people pray for their loved ones to be healed from painful illnesses and those prayers aren't answered. Doesn't that seem a bit absurd and cruel?

You seem to care a lot about the starving people in the world. If you don't mind me asking, what are you doing about that problem?

As far as my view on the starving people in the world (aside from any donations I may give), perhaps this catchy song can give you an idea.





(15-11-2011 08:26 PM)cufflink Wrote:  Another question to ask mega (if he comes back):

Let's assume there really was a supernatural force influencing the cards in your favor. How do you know it was God? Christians typically believe in lots of supernatural beings--angels, demons, the Devil. How do you know it wasn't Satan making those cards come up, thereby keeping you playing yugioh and wasting your time when you could be doing something more productive with it?

Logically speaking: I was an atheist at the time, so why would Satan be doing something like that to have it backfire and get me to believe in God? If Satan didn't want me to believe in God, he would have stayed out of it, since I already wasn't a believer.

(15-11-2011 08:45 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I find the level of hypocrisy in your statement about the priest comment I made almost totally astounding. You yourself assert. Without saying it outright that there was a force behind your luck with yugioh. Then you say that everyone has free will (thereby dodging answering the ethics of god question I layed out) and that people are too quick to assign negative results to god.

I don't care what religous beliefs you have or don't have, everyone needs to be held responsible for the choices they make. That includes the child molesting priests.

As far as why doesn't God just come down and stop the child molesting priest, well, why is God obligated to? God is not obligated to micro-manage everything on earth. I don't have to wait for God to tie my shoes when I am perfectly capable of doing that myself. Furthermore, if God did come down and stop every bad thing from ever happening, we wouldn't have free will. If we don't have free will to do bad things, then that wouldn't be free will. Am I agreeing with child molesting? Certainly not.

Quote:But let's get back to my original question of how you came to the conclusion of Christianity and that this god who favored you over a starving child could be worth worship. Because I'm interested in a real answer. If you still don't understand my question let me know an i'll try to rephrase it so it makes more sense.

I understand your question, I'm just not sure you understand. I already addressed this a bit earlier, where I said I returned to Christianity because that's what I was familiar will. Of course, I wasn't certain at the time. And as I said, I did look into some other religions. The more I grew and learned, the more I found Christianity to be true, and the more I find the Bible being verified and correct.

As far as God favoring me over a starving child, there's a huge misconception here. God doesn't favor anyone. Think about it. I claim that my God is all-powerful and all-knowing. God doesn't gain anything by having me, I don't add anything to his power or knowledge.

Better is one day in Your courts, better is one day in Your house,
Better is one day in Your courts, than thousands elsewhere.
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15-11-2011, 09:31 PM
RE: Hi, I'm a Christian
Sorry to disagree here but if your god chose to use his power to benefit you instead of a starving child or any other human suffering or wild animal for that matter then that would seem to me to be favoritism of a sort.

I still don't think you've actually answered the question but I'm currently tired so let's just agree to disagree. Have a nice night.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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15-11-2011, 09:35 PM
RE: Hi, I'm a Christian
(15-11-2011 09:31 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Sorry to disagree here but if your god chose to use his power to benefit you instead of a starving child or any other human suffering or wild animal for that matter then that would seem to me to be favoritism of a sort.

Apparently there are some gods which have a predilection for favoring card games over alleviating suffering. ... Goddam lobbyists. ....

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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16-11-2011, 03:52 AM
RE: Hi, I'm a Christian
(15-11-2011 09:23 PM)megamaster125 Wrote:  You seem to care a lot about the starving people in the world. If you don't mind me asking, what are you doing about that problem?

Nice comeback there. It's God who's failing to step up to the plate. It's not about individuals. Some people care, some people don't. God's supposed to have infinite compassion and other fine attributes.

Forgive me if I fail to see the logic of the equation: loving God = starving kid.

For me, loving God implies not-starving kid, in which case starving kid observed implies conversely, not-loving God.
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16-11-2011, 06:36 AM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2014 05:54 PM by Chas.)
RE: Hi, I'm a Christian
Quote:Just keep in mind, if you're going to be asking me questions about what I believe and why I think that way, it probably comes from the Bible, which I hold that the Bible is true and free of contradictions. That may not be your view of the Bible, but it's mine. You've been warned though, if you're asking for my perspective, you will probably be offeneded, due to our vastly different belief systems. Same goes for everyone here. Just something for you to be prepared for.

Also, you guys can demand proof and evidence for my beliefs all you want. You guys don't have to provide proof or evidnece for your belief (or lack of belief if you want to be technical), then I don't need proof and evidence for every little perspective I give you. If you ask for my perspective, you get it, proof and evidence don't need to be attached to my perspective. Take it or leave it, but my perspective is and will be my perspective.

Ah, I see the problem with the discussion. You are putting forth your views without the need or desire to substantiate them. You may think that citing the Bible is good enough, but we don't accept the truth of the Bible.

An atheist doesn't really have much, if anything, to prove since we are not the ones making claims. I say that there is no evidence that gods exist, so I don't believe they do. You are making the claim that they do and of the truth and inerrancy of your book, but you have no evidence that those claims are true.

Discussion, here, is based on reason, logic, and evidence. If you are arguing from feelings, experience, and faith you are in the wrong place.

<<<< Added this edit on 2014-07-25 >>>>

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-11-2011, 06:43 AM
RE: Hi, I'm a Christian
I appreciate the compliment, comparing me to your god that is. I was actually going to give some money to our local shelter but my son needed a new x-box game. See how cruel that sounds when looked at with a rational eye. Choosing something as meaningless as a computer game . . . or card game, over human suffering.

Reason enough not to worship your unproven god.
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16-11-2011, 10:34 AM
RE: Hi, I'm a Christian
So did you start this thread to gain attention???
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16-11-2011, 11:02 AM
RE: Hi, I'm a Christian
(16-11-2011 03:52 AM)morondog Wrote:  Nice comeback there. It's God who's failing to step up to the plate. It's not about individuals. Some people care, some people don't. God's supposed to have infinite compassion and other fine attributes.

Forgive me if I fail to see the logic of the equation: loving God = starving kid.

For me, loving God implies not-starving kid, in which case starving kid observed implies conversely, not-loving God.

It is about individuals, a lot more than you think. How about this idea. Loving God sends individuals to help starving children.

(16-11-2011 06:36 AM)Chas Wrote:  Ah, I see the problem with the discussion. You are putting forth your views without the need or desire to substantiate them. You may think that citing the Bible is good enough, but we don't accept the truth of the Bible.

An atheist doesn't really have much, if anything, to prove since we are not the ones making claims. I say that there is no evidence that gods exist, so I don't believe they do. You are making the claim that they do and of the truth and inerrancy of your book, but you have no evidence that those claims are true.

Discussion, here, is based on reason, logic, and evidence. If you are arguing from feelings, experience, and faith you are in the wrong place.

You guys said you want me around to hear my perspective. I don't need to provide proof or evidence to give you my perspective on some issue like abbortion, just like you don't need proof or evidence to give me your thoughts on abbortion.

If my perspective offends you because I don't provide proof or evidence, then that's really just your problem.

(16-11-2011 06:43 AM)free2011 Wrote:  I appreciate the compliment, comparing me to your god that is. I was actually going to give some money to our local shelter but my son needed a new x-box game. See how cruel that sounds when looked at with a rational eye. Choosing something as meaningless as a computer game . . . or card game, over human suffering.

Reason enough not to worship your unproven god.

So because you chose to buy an x-box game instead of giving that money to a local shelter, you also chose not to worship God? I'm not seeing the logical conclusion here.

Better is one day in Your courts, better is one day in Your house,
Better is one day in Your courts, than thousands elsewhere.
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