Hi im agnostic
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22-12-2012, 08:14 PM
Hi im agnostic
(22-12-2012 08:12 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 08:11 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  It means you move from there being a 50/50 chance of there being a god, to a place where you no longer believe. Just like many people, myself included, have done. Shouldn't be that tough to understand. Drinking Beverage
Did the person believe in a God? Drinking Beverage

They didn't not believe in a god. Drinking Beverage

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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22-12-2012, 08:22 PM
RE: Hi im agnostic
(22-12-2012 08:14 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 08:12 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Did the person believe in a God? Drinking Beverage

They didn't not believe in a god. Drinking Beverage
Does a supposed agnostic person believe in a deity?

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22-12-2012, 08:30 PM
RE: Hi im agnostic
If someone prefers the title of agnostic over out and out atheist it usually means they live as though there is no god but isn't counting out the possibility.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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22-12-2012, 09:04 PM
Hi im agnostic
(22-12-2012 08:22 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 08:14 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  They didn't not believe in a god. Drinking Beverage
Does a supposed agnostic person believe in a deity?

I did. Depends on the day, I suppose.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of Calvinism is that good Atheists do nothing." ~Eric Oh My
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23-12-2012, 03:37 AM
RE: Hi im agnostic
(22-12-2012 08:11 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 07:16 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  What exactly does it mean to move from agnosticism to atheism? I'm sorry, but as an agnostic, did you believe in God?

It means you move from there being a 50/50 chance of there being a god, to a place where you no longer believe. Just like many people, myself included, have done. Shouldn't be that tough to understand. Drinking Beverage
I'm not sure that's true.

First of all, I wouldn't put a percentage on it. Is someone still agnostic if they're 90/10? How about 10/90? How about 99/1? If slipping out of agnosticism into atheism requires full on 100% denial of god, 0% chance that there might be a god, then I'm not an atheist after all. I think Dawkins isn't an atheist either, if that's our requirement. Which makes it a fuzzy line. If 100/0 isn't required, then how about 99/1, 98/2, 97/3, etc.? Where is that line, exactly?

As for me, I am inclined to go with the definition of atheism I first got from Penn Gillette: if you believe in god, observe the required doctrines and covenants and whatnots of that god's faith, then you're a theist. If you don't have that kind of belief in your life, then you're an atheist if for no other reason than that's the very definition of the word "atheist" itself.

Which means, by that definition, everyone on the planet who says "I'm agnostic" while not believing in any god strongly enough to conform to the requirements of at least one god are all really atheists.

Consider Catholics. If you claim to be a Catholic, but you don't go to church, don't confess and receive absolution, don't receive sacrament, don't strive to live in a state of grace, and don't even pray to God because you generally doubt he's even there to answer, then you're going to burn for eternity and you know it. If you're living like that but calling yourself Catholic, you'd have a hard time convincing me, or any Catholic priest, that you truly deserve to call yourself Catholic. If you live like that and call yourself agnostic, Penn and I would say that you're really an atheist and don't know it yet.

Think of the reverse: if an agnostic starts going to church, starts believing, praying, observing all the religion's rules and requirements, then he's not agnostic anymore; now he's a theist. Note that I said "now he's a theist". That implies that he was not a theist before, and i think most people, especially his fellow theists, would agree that he wasn't a theist before. By definition, "atheist" means not a theist, so this newly converted agnostic wasn't an agnostic, he was an atheist before he converted.

Which leads us to Dawkins' (et al) suggestion that agnosticism is not even on the line between atheism and theism. It's a separate line entirely, running between agnosticism and gnosticism. Which makes perfect sense to me.

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23-12-2012, 04:31 AM
RE: Hi im agnostic
(22-12-2012 08:30 PM)lucradis Wrote:  If someone prefers the title of agnostic over out and out atheist it usually means they live as though there is no god but isn't counting out the possibility.
Don't we all do so?

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23-12-2012, 04:32 AM
RE: Hi im agnostic
(22-12-2012 09:04 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  
(22-12-2012 08:22 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  Does a supposed agnostic person believe in a deity?

I did. Depends on the day, I suppose.
So you were an agnostic theist? As a supposed "pure" agnostic, do people believe in God or not?

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23-12-2012, 02:23 PM
RE: Hi im agnostic
No we don't all do so. I've met atheists who were just as gungho that there was no possibility of God as some theists are in thinking there is a god.

Usually those who self identify as agnostic are claiming it not just for other non believers but also for theists who like to place their own personal definitions onto labels.

It shouldn't be an issue for people to just get past but for some reason atheists have a major issue letting people self identify as they see fit.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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23-12-2012, 02:34 PM
RE: Hi im agnostic
(23-12-2012 02:23 PM)lucradis Wrote:  No we don't all do so. I've met atheists who were just as gungho that there was no possibility of God as some theists are in thinking there is a god.

Usually those who self identify as agnostic are claiming it not just for other non believers but also for theists who like to place their own personal definitions onto labels.

It shouldn't be an issue for people to just get past but for some reason atheists have a major issue letting people self identify as they see fit.
I was referring to the atheists that frequent this forum.

I am asking a simple question. Does an agnostic believe in God?

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23-12-2012, 04:20 PM
RE: Hi im agnostic
(23-12-2012 02:34 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(23-12-2012 02:23 PM)lucradis Wrote:  No we don't all do so. I've met atheists who were just as gungho that there was no possibility of God as some theists are in thinking there is a god.

Usually those who self identify as agnostic are claiming it not just for other non believers but also for theists who like to place their own personal definitions onto labels.

It shouldn't be an issue for people to just get past but for some reason atheists have a major issue letting people self identify as they see fit.

I was referring to the atheists that frequent this forum.

I am asking a simple question. Does an agnostic believe in God?


No, agnostics think that there may be a god.

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