Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)
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10-04-2016, 01:38 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2016 03:24 PM by StehenYeathatStephen.)
Heart Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)
Hey I need help to answer against this argument from the creation side. Any help greatly appreciated. Cheers Smile
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That's great you've managed to created more gaps for God to fill. The truth is that I'm not one the spoon fed by religion, I asked questions which makes more sense when intelligence is applied to bridge gaps than to assume the universe is based on chaos and disorder. God exists before time and makes His preexistence illogical for He's the source of all energy, time,space and matter. Tell me, are your thoughts products of randomness or consciousness? this consciousness is it a product of disorder? Because religion cannot base its argument on physical evidence doesn't make its claims invalid otherwise rather it superimposes science in its entirety. The problem is that nowadays people misuse religion for their selfish requests and make God distant them the non religious POV becomes warped about the truth throwing the baby out with the bath water, discrediting every ties to the Creator. We all know this but some people just choose apply the same principles of man to God. They think God is a finite entity that dwells in the Sky, that's limited because unfavourable things happen and fail to see they are part of a grand design.
All scientific facts still change to meet up with God's word. Today, the prophecies of the Bible are unravelling : internet, cashless transactions, space exploration, cloning and Modern Warfare are all documented. If we disregard the Bible as the truth because of the God you despise, then only those who pay attention will tap into the knowledge and be able to preemptively avert dangers by calling unto the Savior

Have ever wonder why there are miracles and faith healing that defy medical reports and diagnosis?
Have you asked what happens to consciousness when the body dies? The universe is vast and unexplored dimensions are merely touched and observed and man on his little blue rock doubt the existence of a Supreme Being ,the creator of the universe? Definitely science is taking the common sense out of people and philosophy is doing more harm of twisting faith with facts

One more thing, God is not "god of the gaps" as He's the source of all creation

“Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking. It is merely that when the atoms inside my skull happen, for physical or chemical reasons, to arrange themselves in a certain way, this gives me, as a by-product, the sensation I call thought. But, if so, how can I trust my own thinking to be true? It’s like upsetting a milk jug and hoping that the way it splashes itself will give you a map of London. But if I can’t trust my own thinking, of course I can’t trust the arguments leading to Atheism, and therefore have no reason to be an Atheist, or anything else. Unless I believe in God, I cannot believe in thought: so I can never use thought to disbelieve in God.” —C.S. Lewis

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That is what he said.. I have come across a site that completely obliterates this quote: https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAtheism/com..._joke_and/

My overall view on the topic is this, which is a point within itself:

It seems like he's not advancing his own position by trying to trash another. It's called the argument from ignorance. He's setting up a false dichotomy where either the current scientific theory explains everything, or else "whatever his explanation is" wins by default. Not the case at all. If he did manage to debunk current theory (not likely) then we would simply have no good explanation. We would then investigate to find a new one. We wouldn't fill the gap of knowledge with magical fairy tales. He's really just displaying his ignorance.

But saying that I would want to try and counter the argument with what was said above and more, be it actually answering the questions or something else that science has taught us.

But the rest of it I would appreciate any assistance. I am doing this more for myself than debating but would like to do both.
Thanks Smile
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10-04-2016, 01:50 PM
RE: Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)
Welcome to our community.

Your post was edited by me to fix some sizing issues.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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10-04-2016, 02:12 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2016 06:20 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)
Not going to address all the content here. Just a few points.

Quote:I asked questions which makes more sense when intelligence is applied to bridge gaps than to assume the universe is based on chaos and disorder.

We know (from Chaos Theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory )
order arises spontaneously, in this universe. The argument is "from intuition" .. we know that what appears to human minds to be intuitively "true" or logical, is not the way fundamental reality works, (Relativity, Uncertainty, and some math)

Quote:God exists before time and makes His preexistence illogical for He's the source of all energy, time,space and matter.

Is meaningless. There is no "before" time. They'll just have to get over that one. "Creation" requires *intent* and causality, (both of which need to precede the act. Can't have those without time already in place.
How did his god cause "causality" unless the principle was already in place. A being which 'exists" is REQUIRED to participate, only partially, in a larger Reality, which includes non-existence. Nothing can create the very (larger) Reality in which it MUST participate.

Quote:Tell me, are your thoughts products of randomness or consciousness?

Nope. Neuroscience knows how thoughts arise, (and can watch them on various scans.., MRI and PET scans), and how LEARNED patterns of though arise. No one says they are "random". They are the result of learning and sensory input, and stored memory.

There is no coherent definition for a "god". The Christian god arose in human history (Yahweh), as the 40th son of the Babylonian diety, El Elyon. The hebrews picked him, to help them in their battles, as he was the war god.

Quote:
All scientific facts still change to meet up with God's word. Today, the prophecies of the Bible are unravelling

1. Is a meaningless sentence.
2. "Prophesy" in the Bible is not "prediction". That error is a common, street level mistake, uneducated religionists make all the time.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid257278

Quote:Have you asked what happens to consciousness when the body dies?

No. It ceases. There is no mechanism for it to continue. Medical science knows that it is IMPAIRED by PHYSICAL INJURY. Death is the worst "injury" imaginable. It stops. Period. There is not one instance known to science of a brain producing consciousness that is mortally impaired.

No one cares what C.S. Lewis says. He was a scholar of nothing. Not a Physicist, not a theologian, not a philosopher, not a Biblical scholar. (This as attempt to argue "from authority" ... a well known fallacy. He was an authority on nothing). (Aurgumentum ad vericundiam fallacy).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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10-04-2016, 02:15 PM
RE: Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)
Oh CS Lewis, everyone's favorite go-to because he was so brilliant because he was such an expert in......... Drinking Beverage

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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10-04-2016, 02:30 PM
RE: Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)
It is difficult to supply you with a full response due to lack of context. I have, however, picked out a few general points worth addressing below.

(10-04-2016 01:38 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  I asked questions which makes more sense when intelligence is applied to bridge gaps than to assume the universe is based on chaos and disorder.

Positing the existence of unevidenced entities is a violation of parsimony.

"This is complicated and I think it would make more sense if someone did it deliberately" is not evidence. It is the argument from personal incredulity fallacy.

(10-04-2016 01:38 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  God exists before time and makes His preexistence illogical for He's the source of all energy, time,space and matter.

The properties of any given god are entirely speculative. Bare assertion is not a sound basis for an argument.

(10-04-2016 01:38 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  Tell me, are your thoughts products of randomness or consciousness? this consciousness is it a product of disorder?

There is no rational reason to believe that human consciousness is the result of intelligent design, no. This is the argument from personal incredulity again.

(10-04-2016 01:38 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  Because religion cannot base its argument on physical evidence doesn't make its claims invalid

It rather does. Claims without evidence are bare assertions. Bare assertions can be discarded.

(10-04-2016 01:38 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  All scientific facts still change to meet up with God's word.

Blatantly false.

(10-04-2016 01:38 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  Today, the prophecies of the Bible are unravelling : internet, cashless transactions, space exploration, cloning and Modern Warfare are all documented.

These are not Biblical prophecies, but I doubt that anyone who actually says this and believes it could ever be convinced otherwise.

(10-04-2016 01:38 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  Have ever wonder why there are miracles and faith healing that defy medical reports and diagnosis?

There aren't.

(10-04-2016 01:38 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  Have you asked what happens to consciousness when the body dies?

It ends.

(10-04-2016 01:38 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  One more thing, God is not "god of the gaps" as He's the source of all creation

"God of the gaps" is a term used to describe a fallacious form of argumentation, not the god itself.

(10-04-2016 01:38 PM)StehenYeathatStephen Wrote:  “Supposing there was no intelligence behind the universe, no creative mind. In that case, nobody designed my brain for the purpose of thinking.

And yet the brain exists to think regardless.

Truth and rationality have nothing to do with the origins of the mind.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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10-04-2016, 03:16 PM
RE: Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)
(10-04-2016 02:15 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Oh CS Lewis, everyone's favorite go-to because he was so brilliant because he was such an expert in......... Drinking Beverage

...Narnia.




Wink

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
-Guybrush Threepwood-
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10-04-2016, 05:13 PM
RE: Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)
(10-04-2016 03:16 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(10-04-2016 02:15 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  Oh CS Lewis, everyone's favorite go-to because he was so brilliant because he was such an expert in......... Drinking Beverage

...Narnia.




Wink

Fantasy.... ya know, that makes more sense.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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10-04-2016, 05:21 PM
RE: Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)
I agree. The opening post fails to ask specific questions that can be answered individually. Bucky and Unbeliever did a good job. As did our own beloved Greek goddess.

Welcome.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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10-04-2016, 06:07 PM (This post was last modified: 10-04-2016 06:15 PM by StehenYeathatStephen.)
RE: Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)
Thanks Bucky Ball, for taking the time to assist me. Appreciate bud, this will help me a lot Smile
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10-04-2016, 06:14 PM
RE: Hi, require assistance in answering for my position, Cheers :)

Thanks very much for this.. will help a lot along with other responses.

On what you said:
Quote:"Blatantly false."

I agree. But is there any way to emphazie this further in a paragraph.. like why it's so stupid to suggest that god is behind everything science has and has not have an answer to it.

Once again thanks Smile
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