Higher logic
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04-07-2014, 12:51 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2014 03:33 PM by BlackMason.)
Higher logic
So I'm thinking, what if there is a higher logic. Or rather what if the logic we use is the premature form of some other superior logic yet to be attained. The ancestors we evolved from had some form of logic they used right? What if it wasn't the same as the one we use now.

Here's what I'm not saying: That our ancestors didn't know the differences between their faces and arses. I'm talking about something more refined.

Perhaps our species hasn't been on this planet long enough for us to have reached that "ascended" logic. We are still evolving.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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04-07-2014, 01:53 PM
RE: Higher logic
Interesting concept. Mathematics progresses from arithmetic through algebra to more advanced levels, but arithmetic is never replaced, it remains a fundamental component of more complex logical structures. I think if there were some undiscovered advanced level of logic we'd have discovered it by now, for the same reason that we're well beyond mere arithmetic in the science of mathematics.
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04-07-2014, 03:00 PM
RE: Higher logic
Human constructs serve a purpose: to detect patterns, and to explain them. That's just what we do.

What, then, necessitates something greater than our present tools?

It's not sufficient merely to say that maybe there is "something" else out there.
(well; it is, if you don't mind not going anywhere with that statement)

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04-07-2014, 03:05 PM
RE: Higher logic
You used traditional logic in the formation of your posts.

IF there is a higher logic, THEN our ancestors developed a premature logic

You can't really discuss the impacts of anything without using traditional structure of cause and effect, inductive, and deductive arguments. It is not that they lack any elements, is that they are so fundamental; irreducibly simplistic and specific. You can create higher forms of logic by using these structure to make conclusions. Attacking the axiomatic definitions doesn't make sense. Assuming them to be something else also doesn't make sense.
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04-07-2014, 03:07 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2014 03:47 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Higher logic
(04-07-2014 12:51 PM)BlackMason Wrote:  So I'm thinking, what if there is a higher logic.

Not only have we formulated higher-order logics. we have determined their intrinsic limits. Logic won't save us. We've proven logically it can't. ... Crazy bonobos playing with our crayons and shit. Big Grin




#sigh
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04-07-2014, 04:10 PM
RE: Higher logic
I don't know, things are either right or wrong. I think "logic" is a concrete term, not exactly dynamic in its definitions.

I'm not sure if there are levels of logic. It's just logic. When people say "bad logic" and "strong logic", I'm sure it's on a spectrum of logic. If there exists a higher form of logic altogether, that we can only speculate.

When you say "Perhaps our species hasn't been on this planet long enough for us to have reached that "ascended" logic", I find it difficult not to discern it as another way of saying we haven't progressed to become even more logical. That doesn't necessarily constitute that there's a separate form of logic altogether, just that we can still improve our current logic with technology and developments, for example.

I find a higher form of logic tantamount to a higher form of physics.

An example of weak logic

logical fallacy (circular reasoning) - John is an impressive speaker because he always touches his listeners deeply. This would be an example of circular reasoning. It's like saying "Sarah is beautiful because she's good looking." The very meaning of beautiful includes the idea of someone being good looking so the argument is faulty.

An example of strong logic

If I'm about to cross a street where cars go by, I should look both ways before crossing so that I do not get hit.

----------------------

While I was watching Cosmos - a personal voyage, quite recently, there was an episode where Sagan talked about the burning of Alexandria, the worlds largest library with over a million books. He talked about how many great works where destroyed and how countless scrolls containing information people like Aristotle contributed where destroyed. We lost so much information in that fire. We'd be more intelligent had we still had those precious works, probably a few 100 years into the future, who knows?

The destruction of the library impeded our logical progression.

So yeah, I'm pretty confused as there could be some sort of transcendent logic of logic. We use logic to say, 2+2=4, not sure if there could be a higher form. We use physics to determine the speed of light and I'm not sure if some higher more complete set of physics would not fall into the same conventional teachings of the very same laws. Imagine if a "higher" form of physics came along and proved the speed of light was faster and whatnot. That would not only render the "lower" physics useless, it would also conflict with our current understanding of the universe at hand.

There's a higher form of logic within logic, that being we can always improve our foundation of logic. We can not, however, find a logic that exists outside of logic. What would logic be then anyway if there were a "separate" form of it altogether? It wouldn't even be logic if there were another entirely separate form of it that can do its job better being totally different in its operations. If you can logically make a square circle, then our current logic would evaporate and be entirely replaced and we'd have to ask ourselves "was that logic in the first place"?

Everyday is judgement day. Use your judgement, use reason.
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04-07-2014, 04:48 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2014 04:55 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Higher logic
(04-07-2014 04:10 PM)Freethought Wrote:  If there exists a higher form of logic altogether, that we can only speculate.

It's not speculation. We have driven that horse into the ground and know how far it can go. ... Like formally and rigorously and inarguably.

(04-07-2014 04:10 PM)Freethought Wrote:  I think "logic" is a concrete term, not exactly dynamic in its definitions.

Nope. It's as flexible as any contortionist you could ever meet.

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04-07-2014, 05:09 PM
RE: Higher logic
(04-07-2014 04:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(04-07-2014 04:10 PM)Freethought Wrote:  If there exists a higher form of logic altogether, that we can only speculate.

It's not speculation. We have driven that horse into the ground and know how far it can go. ... Like formally and rigorously and inarguably.

(04-07-2014 04:10 PM)Freethought Wrote:  I think "logic" is a concrete term, not exactly dynamic in its definitions.

Nope. It's as flexible as any contortionist you could ever meet.

hmm, perhaps it can be flexible, although I didn't think logic was exactly an ambiguous term. I'm still all too confused at the notion, though. Just to be sure we're on the same page here, what exactly did you think I meant with "If there exists a higher form of logic altogether." What I tried to convey there by saying "higher form" is like some transcendent different kind of logic that supersedes our current logic. If that already exists and is found out, why then don't we have "logic", and "logic"? Thanks for your thoughts.

Everyday is judgement day. Use your judgement, use reason.
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04-07-2014, 05:23 PM
RE: Higher logic
I'm reading a book right now titled The Ascendant (fiction) about a guy who can see patterns where others can see none, similar to the topic here.
Interesting.
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04-07-2014, 05:38 PM
RE: Higher logic
(04-07-2014 05:23 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  I'm reading a book right now titled The Ascendant (fiction) about a guy who can see patterns where others can see none, similar to the topic here.
Interesting.

That reminds me of Synthesia, which is a neurological condition where people can "feel" colours. Some savants have it. Very interesting about the mind.

Everyday is judgement day. Use your judgement, use reason.
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