Higher logic
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04-07-2014, 05:40 PM
RE: Higher logic
(04-07-2014 05:38 PM)Freethought Wrote:  
(04-07-2014 05:23 PM)pablo628 Wrote:  I'm reading a book right now titled The Ascendant (fiction) about a guy who can see patterns where others can see none, similar to the topic here.
Interesting.

That reminds me of Synthesia, which is a neurological condition where people can "feel" colours. Some savants have it. Very interesting about the mind.

*synesthesia

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-07-2014, 06:27 PM
RE: Higher logic
(04-07-2014 05:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-07-2014 05:38 PM)Freethought Wrote:  That reminds me of Synthesia, which is a neurological condition where people can "feel" colours. Some savants have it. Very interesting about the mind.

*synesthesia

I originally intended to spell it as "synesthesia" but tried "Synthesia" to see if I could get away with it and if anyone was paying attention. You win!

PS: I didn't actually know the spelling at the top of my head. I usually google words like that to double check before I post for this very reason Tongue.

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05-07-2014, 07:13 AM
RE: Higher logic
(04-07-2014 12:51 PM)BlackMason Wrote:  So I'm thinking, what if there is a higher logic. Or rather what if the logic we use is the premature form of some other superior logic yet to be attained. The ancestors we evolved from had some form of logic they used right? What if it wasn't the same as the one we use now.

Here's what I'm not saying: That our ancestors didn't know the differences between their faces and arses. I'm talking about something more refined.

Perhaps our species hasn't been on this planet long enough for us to have reached that "ascended" logic. We are still evolving.

Since we evolved to have and use our conceptual faculty from non conceptual ancestors, it is conceivable that we could evolve more advanced faculties. I don't know what form they would take. Maybe the ability to deal with more percepts at once.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.
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05-07-2014, 08:58 AM
RE: Higher logic
(04-07-2014 05:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(04-07-2014 05:38 PM)Freethought Wrote:  That reminds me of Synthesia, which is a neurological condition where people can "feel" colours. Some savants have it. Very interesting about the mind.

*synesthesia

*synaesthesia

Yes

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08-07-2014, 01:19 AM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2014 01:33 AM by Luminon.)
RE: Higher logic
(04-07-2014 12:51 PM)BlackMason Wrote:  So I'm thinking, what if there is a higher logic. Or rather what if the logic we use is the premature form of some other superior logic yet to be attained. The ancestors we evolved from had some form of logic they used right? What if it wasn't the same as the one we use now.

Here's what I'm not saying: That our ancestors didn't know the differences between their faces and arses. I'm talking about something more refined.

Perhaps our species hasn't been on this planet long enough for us to have reached that "ascended" logic. We are still evolving.
Good question. The higher logic exists, but it is THE formal logic of classical philosophers on which mathematics is built.

You should instead ask if there is such a thing as lower logic, inferior logic. There indeed is - and it is an emotional, subjective logic. It is the logic of MINE (means true, good and beautiful, needs to be eaten and/or fucked or believed in fanatically) and NOT MINE (false, bad and ugly, must be killed or run away from or burned at stake). This is the logic on which both religions and governments are built. Governments are the things that fund most of science, FYI, for the purpose of blowing up NOT MINE nations.
A refined modern form of the "subjective logic" is the female logic. They promise they will call you, but what they actually do depends on how they feel about you.

Even so - could there be some super-high logic? Yes, I would say so, but logic is only as good as its language. Metaphysics is understood by scientists as reality that will be some day integrated into science. This reality is logical, even if it's unknown yet. I'd say we are able to describe this reality logically in a very abstract way even before it starts making sense in context of our present scientific knowledge.
There is the vague Deepak Chopra logic such as the law of correspondence, law of pairs of opposites, law of resonance and action and reaction. I am trained to understand such these texts and I actually disdain Chopra, I prefer some Theosophy, but still, the language is dreadful. It's full of religious parallels (including Buddhism and Hinduism) and astrological metaphors. But I can tell you, all this multi-cultural crap is used out of necessity to point out logical parallels in what otherwise has no name and is only known to average seeker as a mystical experience colored and biased by his cultural background only. That is what I would call the domain of the higher or "abstract logic". Striving for objectivity in what is an exotic, subjective, mind-blowing experience, yet shared by all cultures for all history. It's kind of legit, if you think of it that way Tongue

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
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08-07-2014, 12:00 PM
RE: Higher logic
(05-07-2014 08:58 AM)cjlr Wrote:  
(04-07-2014 05:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  *synesthesia

*synaesthesia

Yes

*Ideasthesia

While we are doing this Tongue
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15-07-2014, 02:10 PM (This post was last modified: 15-07-2014 02:13 PM by BlackMason.)
RE: Higher logic
(04-07-2014 03:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Human constructs serve a purpose: to detect patterns, and to explain them. That's just what we do.

What, then, necessitates something greater than our present tools?

It's not sufficient merely to say that maybe there is "something" else out there.
(well; it is, if you don't mind not going anywhere with that statement)

You're gonna have to correct me if I'm wrong about what you're saying. As I understand it you are saying that the logic we use is only useful for our human condition/perspective. By extension logic is a language and the different creatures in this world speak a different language but is similar based on their perspectives.

One of our major senses is sight. This is therefore a paramount cog in our wheel of logic. Sight perhaps can be extended to similar things like evidence/proof. Although we may not physically see the evidence/proof, it is visible in the "eye" of our logic. I hope I'm making sense?

So for a bat or a creature that doesn't have sight, logic could be slightly different. You wouldn't be able to use your human understanding to prove something to a bat. You'd need a way to transform your sight based logic (logic based on your interactions with the world) to logic based on sound. Sound is a major sense of a bat for example. If you wanted to tell a bat to go left and not right, you'd have to use sound or manipulate sound.

Man I can talk shit yes I know. But does it make sense? Logic is based on how we interpret the world. Bats share other senses like touch. So at some point our different logics will mimic each other but diverge at some point. Kinda like language.

8000 years before Jesus, the Egyptian god Horus said, "I am the way, the truth, the life."
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16-07-2014, 02:17 PM
RE: Higher logic
There's higher logic all right... Er... Maybe I'm thinking about stoner logic. It's usually not good logic...
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