Hilarity then sadness
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28-08-2015, 01:52 PM (This post was last modified: 28-08-2015 02:51 PM by The Organic Chemist.)
Hilarity then sadness
This morning, my shoelace broke on my workboot. My wife said that there may be another pair in the junk drawer. So I looked and my 8 YO joined me. It turns out that my wife puts her bible in this same drawer during the week. My son, in complete seriousness, said, "mom, you think your bible is junk because it was in the junk drawer?" I was in awe at that since i didn't even make that connection. She has always referred to that drawer as the "junk drawer" and she always keeps her bible in it. Well, I couldn't help but laugh and the look on her face looked a bit shocked as I don't think she had thought of that either.

Anyway, that funny moment was broken a minute or so later when she said "well, that is something that you can post on your 'I hate christians site'" (referring to TTA). That really upset me that she feels that this site is hateful. I really don't think it is and I reassured her that even though there are some people who really throw the venom (and you know who you are), there are many, many people who are married to christians and we love them very much. I can't help but wonder whether she is seeing cranks like Q and COTW and how they are treated without realizing that they have earned those responses over many, many posts. She sees the dishonest clowns and not folks like KC who are highly respected and also christian. I told her that there are assholes in all walks of life and that there are people who are mean because of who she is and there are also people in her church who are mean because of what I am (I have heard talk not directed at me but they had no idea they were talking about "my kind"). It really saddens me if she thinks that I hate christians and can't see that one can not like the theology but love the people.

*sigh* At least, half of this was funny. Confused


Edit: Hi baby!! Love you.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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28-08-2015, 02:05 PM (This post was last modified: 29-08-2015 04:42 AM by Tonechaser77.)
RE: Hilarity then sadness
Aren't kids great? The connections they start to make at early ages really are fascinating. The other day my 6 year old was asking questions about death...he does this a lot...and he is starting to think past the typical answers of "we go to heaven if we love jesus" that my wife gives.

This time he asked how we float up to heaven if gravity holds us to the earth. I was stunned because I had to stop and think through all the typical woo...that was a really good question, especially for his age.

I got his globe and told him we were going to break down each thought. I started with where people think heaven "is" ....up. I told him to put himself in the mind of a spaceship looking at earth from far away (holding the globe). When you're on the north pole which way is up? He pointed up. When you're in Ohio which way is up? He pointed out. When you're on the south pole which way is up? He pointed down. I then explained to him how the ancients viewed the world...flat and the heavens like a snow globe with waters above the firmament and below the flat earth. I explained what they thought rain was. He gave me this weird look like why the eff would they think that? So i got to explain that this was all before we had the process of science and now that we know what we do, we know that their old beliefs seem a little nonsensical.

As far as answering his direct question...i simply said that it was a really good question and I don't know. Some people think they live after they die but we have no reliable, testable evidence to support this; so at most it is wishful thinking. He seemed satisfied for the moment and ran on.

I love having those conversations though, if only to give the kids an escape hatch down the road.

**Crickets** -- God
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28-08-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
Out of the mouths of babes, right?

I don't think the people here hate Christians...they hate what religion, and it's followers, try to push on everyone because it fits their belief system.

Look around - I went to Catholic school in a nearly all Catholic town. Some say Catholics aren't really Christians (usually other Christians say that). I have lived for most of my adult life in the American south. Pretty much everyone I encounter is affiliated with one religion or another.

It's too bad that your wife thinks we are Christian haters. We are really a pretty good group. People like Q, Blowme, and a few others raise the ire of people not so much for their faith but because they are just jerks - and they would be if they didn't profess to be Christian.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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28-08-2015, 02:28 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
Maybe she is not very well acquainted with troll activity on internet forums. Frankly, we're pretty tame compared to some places I've seen.

Has she read through any of the threads in the recovering from religion forum? She might come a bit closer to understanding what many here have gone through and continue to go through.

There may be vitrol here but it is here as a learning experience. It is tolerated to help n00bs gain confidence in standing up to years of being surrouded by ubiquitous hatred of something they've had to hide: their Self.

For some, this place is the only time and place they are able to openly practice with the tools of reason and logic, to realize empathy and appreciate life and yes, unabashedly take out dogmatic frustrations on trolls who come here with (lets face it) masochistic intent.
***

Right now, she is on the outside looking in. Tell her there are many here that know that feeling... and often feel it everywhere but here. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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28-08-2015, 02:35 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
We do talk about other things here...families, activities, music, books, etc. This isn't just a one subject forum...maybe if she saw that we are real people living real lives she would see us as more than just atheist.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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28-08-2015, 02:46 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
(28-08-2015 02:09 PM)Anjele Wrote:  I don't think the people here hate Christians...they hate what religion, and it's followers, try to push on everyone because it fits their belief system.

Look around - I went to Catholic school in a nearly all Catholic town. Some say Catholics aren't really Christians (usually other Christians say that). I have lived for most of my adult life in the American south. Pretty much everyone I encounter is affiliated with one religion or another.

It's too bad that your wife thinks we are Christian haters. We are really a pretty good group. People like Q, Blowme, and a few others raise the ire of people not so much for their faith but because they are just jerks - and they would be if they didn't profess to be Christian.

Too be fair, I am not completely sure whether she feels that we are all christian haters or whether there were a few responses that put her off.

(28-08-2015 02:28 PM)kim Wrote:  Maybe she is not very well acquainted with troll activity on internet forums. Frankly, we're pretty tame compared to some places I've seen.

I think that maybe part of it. I have tried to be nice to Q, COTW, and blowjob but after a while, their stupidity is just numbing. I am not sure whether she knows that or not. I really have no idea what or how she looks at things when she comes here. If she only goes to my profile and looks at my posts, she may not se a ton of things.

(28-08-2015 02:28 PM)kim Wrote:  Has she read through any of the threads in the recovering from religion forum? She might come a bit closer to understanding what many here have gone through and continue to go through.

Again, no idea. I have no idea whether she has seen GWG's resource thread, deconversion stories, or whatnot. If she is exploring, I would rather she does it on her own and if she wants to ask me something, she can. We have a pretty good relationship like that. However, I am not naive enough to think that in the religious category, she will talk to me about something she sees here. She will probably just go to one of her church friends and get an apologetic answer. I don't want to make her feel like I am pushing her or anything because I'm not.

(28-08-2015 02:28 PM)kim Wrote:  For some, this place is the only time and place they are able to openly practice with the tools of reason and logic, to realize empathy and appreciate life and yes, unabashedly take out dogmatic frustrations on trolls who come here with (lets face it) masochistic intent.
***

Right now, she is on the outside looking in. Tell her there are many here that know that feeling... and often feel it everywhere but here. Shy

I totally agree, I like smashing trolls when I get a chance and I also like to discuss with some who legitimately want to discuss (which unfortunately, are few and far between). I have seen many different perspectives that I hadn't though of before since coming here. I really can't relate to how she feels coming here since when I have been on religious forums in the past, I am able to relate to some degree.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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28-08-2015, 02:47 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
(28-08-2015 02:35 PM)Anjele Wrote:  We do talk about other things here...families, activities, music, books, etc. This isn't just a one subject forum...maybe if she saw that we are real people living real lives she would see us as more than just atheist.

Right, excellent point.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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28-08-2015, 02:53 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
(28-08-2015 02:47 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 02:35 PM)Anjele Wrote:  We do talk about other things here...families, activities, music, books, etc. This isn't just a one subject forum...maybe if she saw that we are real people living real lives she would see us as more than just atheist.

Right, excellent point.

We are a pretty supportive group when it comes to the troubles of others here. In fact, I have never encountered such a great group of people who will at the least talk you through a problem, some will show up in person (I'm looking at Peebo here), and even offer aid financially.

It's a pretty good crew here, for the most part.

We care because we care, not because we have been told we should. I find that really heartwarming.

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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28-08-2015, 02:53 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
So sorry OC. It's the church that classifies all atheists as awful, ungrateful people with a total lack of morals. Basically to them, atheists are bad people who hate God and just want to sin freely. This is what I was taught as a Christian. Due to that, I can understand why your wife may take this position and call us the "I hate Christians" group. The church is a hateful organization and atheism threatens their very existence. They don't like thinkers. So the only way to combat that is to use the you're going to hell card and disparage atheists in any way they can.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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28-08-2015, 03:04 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
If I am being honest or "transparent", as my christianese vocabulary would assert, I see where an outsider looking in could easily build a straw man of "they hate me cuz i'm a christian." It gets extremely frustrating when dealing with certain responses / personalities in here. Hell, I bet people think I'm frustrating with my drivel, but that's beside the point. Some people can come across very degrading. While many of us appeal to the "hate the myth, not the myther" our responses and hostility sometimes bleed into the realm of ad hominem attacks.

It only takes a few instances like this for a religious person to latch onto..... essentially fliping her/his confirmation bias switch into the on position. Their straw man construction of what a non-believer "is" gets reaffirmed and makes that fallacy much harder to tear down.

For what it's worth, I agree that many many people in here are very nice and certainly not defined by the typical religious view of atheism though.

**Crickets** -- God
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