Hilarity then sadness
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28-08-2015, 06:21 PM (This post was last modified: 28-08-2015 07:13 PM by jennybee.)
RE: Hilarity then sadness
(28-08-2015 06:09 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 02:53 PM)jennybee Wrote:  So sorry OC. It's the church that classifies all atheists as awful, ungrateful people with a total lack of morals. Basically to them, atheists are bad people who hate God and just want to sin freely. This is what I was taught as a Christian. Due to that, I can understand why your wife may take this position and call us the "I hate Christians" group. The church is a hateful organization and atheism threatens their very existence. They don't like thinkers. So the only way to combat that is to use the you're going to hell card and disparage atheists in any way they can.

If you recall, just two months ago my father visited me and tried to pull out the "you aren't really an atheist, you just want to defy God's Laws" canard... after all, that's what our church teaches. He laid that card down with the certainty only someone whose pastor has told him, "Hit him with this Knowledge, it'll win for sure" can muster.

My response shocked him, when I said that I rejected "God's Laws" because I consider them to be immoral and I am a better person than the Bible says to be. I listed a few examples of Biblical ideas I find abhorrent.

Clearly, he had not considered the possibility that my sense of morality, not a "spirit of defiance" (another church term), is what led me to reject his faith.

That was day one of his visit. The rest of the weekend, we had a pretty good time together.

OC - I'd stay with the emphasis you mentioned, that lots of us are married to and/or are good friends with Christians, and that we're humans of high moral standards who are just offended by people who are willfully dishonest (the trolls on the site). If she understands that she is not under attack, and that what she is being taught about us should be viewed with, let's call it "a bit more", skepticism.

Most of the Christians I know are either clueless about what the Bible *really* says or have been pacified with sugar-coated answers to scary/immoral passages. There are a few others I know who don't view the Bible literally and therefore, kind of live their lives as they want to while believing in God and Jesus.

When I was a Christian, I thought atheists were immoral people because that's what I was taught in church and because I could not understand how someone could be a good person and not love God (or not *want* to love God). Now that I am an atheist, I realize that was just more brainwashed teaching on the part of my church. Atheists are some of the nicest, kindest people I know. I just am so thankful every day to be free from the brainwashed delusion of religion.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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28-08-2015, 07:52 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
(28-08-2015 06:09 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 02:53 PM)jennybee Wrote:  So sorry OC. It's the church that classifies all atheists as awful, ungrateful people with a total lack of morals. Basically to them, atheists are bad people who hate God and just want to sin freely. This is what I was taught as a Christian. Due to that, I can understand why your wife may take this position and call us the "I hate Christians" group. The church is a hateful organization and atheism threatens their very existence. They don't like thinkers. So the only way to combat that is to use the you're going to hell card and disparage atheists in any way they can.

If you recall, just two months ago my father visited me and tried to pull out the "you aren't really an atheist, you just want to defy God's Laws" canard... after all, that's what our church teaches. He laid that card down with the certainty only someone whose pastor has told him, "Hit him with this Knowledge, it'll win for sure" can muster.

My response shocked him, when I said that I rejected "God's Laws" because I consider them to be immoral and I am a better person than the Bible says to be. I listed a few examples of Biblical ideas I find abhorrent.

Clearly, he had not considered the possibility that my sense of morality, not a "spirit of defiance" (another church term), is what led me to reject his faith.

That was day one of his visit. The rest of the weekend, we had a pretty good time together.

I remember this event very well.

Whatever became of it?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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28-08-2015, 08:11 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
Nothing. We had a good weekend, he went home. I think it registered, at last, with my dad, that he cannot "win" using the things his church teaches him to say to atheists, and both my objections about the lies the church teaches about atheists and the "I am more moral than your holy book" counter-argument clearly struck home with him.

When I went to visit them in Louisiana in the first couple weeks of August, they didn't mention religion at all, except to pray at meals and invite me to come watch dad play the baritone horn and mom sing (separate songs!) at their church service.

I enjoyed it. Was way better-dressed than anyone else in the room, too... not only no suits, but I was the only tie! I wish I'd thought to get a pic of my Beloved all dressed up in Sunday clothes. She looked amazing... even though we'd been chasing kids all day and screwing all night (and never sleeping) for a week straight, at that point. Tongue

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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28-08-2015, 08:15 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
(28-08-2015 08:11 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Nothing. We had a good weekend, he went home. I think it registered, at last, with my dad, that he cannot "win" using the things his church teaches him to say to atheists, and both my objections about the lies the church teaches about atheists and the "I am more moral than your holy book" counter-argument clearly struck home with him.

When I went to visit them in Louisiana in the first couple weeks of August, they didn't mention religion at all, except to pray at meals and invite me to come watch dad play the baritone horn and mom sing (separate songs!) at their church service.

I enjoyed it. Was way better-dressed than anyone else in the room, too... not only no suits, but I was the only tie! I wish I'd thought to get a pic of my Beloved all dressed up in Sunday clothes. She looked amazing... even though we'd been chasing kids all day and screwing all night (and never sleeping) for a week straight, at that point. Tongue


Ha! Love it. Thumbsup

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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28-08-2015, 08:17 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
(28-08-2015 08:11 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Nothing. We had a good weekend, he went home. I think it registered, at last, with my dad, that he cannot "win" using the things his church teaches him to say to atheists, and both my objections about the lies the church teaches about atheists and the "I am more moral than your holy book" counter-argument clearly struck home with him.

When I went to visit them in Louisiana in the first couple weeks of August, they didn't mention religion at all, except to pray at meals and invite me to come watch dad play the baritone horn and mom sing (separate songs!) at their church service.

I enjoyed it. Was way better-dressed than anyone else in the room, too... not only no suits, but I was the only tie! I wish I'd thought to get a pic of my Beloved all dressed up in Sunday clothes. She looked amazing... even though we'd been chasing kids all day and screwing all night (and never sleeping) for a week straight, at that point. Tongue

You are so sweet when you talk about your Beloved. I can tell you really love her Heart

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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28-08-2015, 08:19 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
(28-08-2015 08:17 PM)jennybee Wrote:  You are so sweet when you talk about your Beloved. I can tell you really love her Heart

He's just showing off! Tongue

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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28-08-2015, 08:24 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
(28-08-2015 08:19 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(28-08-2015 08:17 PM)jennybee Wrote:  You are so sweet when you talk about your Beloved. I can tell you really love her Heart

He's just showing off! Tongue

Well, yeah.

And... yeah! Tongue

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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28-08-2015, 09:03 PM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
In my mind, it's comparable to the whole "love the sinner, hate the sin" mindset.

Most people here know and love christians, we are close to them and deal with them every day as friends and family. We don't vilify people, we vilify the ideology that makes the ones we love think things that are horrible and immoral to us.

We come to this place to vent. We come here to compare and contrast our experiences and gain insight as to how we can best deal with it (or make entertaining suggestions as to how we'd like to). The theists that come here like to take these interactions and paint us as "Christian haters".

It's just not true. We hate what makes us weaker as a species, and we hate that those we love so willingly subscribe to that worldview. So in this place we rail against it, because we need some place to do it. The theists that come here will point this out as though we live our every day lives like we do here. It's just not so.

We aren't as "blessed" to be able to wear our heart on our sleeves the way that christians are in every day life without being vilified and persecuted the way that they claim to be.

In this place we meet on equal footing. We tolerate theists who come to preach because it's that easy to shoot them down....here. It's not so easy to do in the real world without risking losing the very things we love, which in most cases means the very people in our lives we hold dearest.

We come here not out of hate, but just the opposite.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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29-08-2015, 07:10 AM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
(28-08-2015 01:52 PM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  I can't help but wonder whether she is seeing cranks like Q and COTW and how they are treated without realizing that they have earned those responses over many, many posts. She sees the dishonest clowns and not folks like KC who are highly respected and also christian.

That's like a member of the tea party claiming he doesn't hate black people, because he likes Ben Carson, and Allen West.

I'm sort of teasing you here.

Quote: if she thinks that I hate christians and can't see that one can not like the theology but love the people.

When you say you love the people, does that include Q and COTW, or just the KC's of the world?

While I think hate is too strong of a word,I can't blame your wife for thinking atheist dislike the typical Christian, the same way liberals and conservatives tend not to like each other all that much. While that might not be true for you and many others here, it is the sort of impression more vocal atheists, the one's that get their 5 minutes of fame often give.
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29-08-2015, 07:15 AM
RE: Hilarity then sadness
To be fair -- xtians are not the only ones who get offended when you laugh at their delusions.....

Comic-con is full of people who'd get their panties in a bunch if you talk bad about Darth Vader, Superman or Captain Kirk....
'

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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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