Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
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02-04-2016, 08:01 AM
RE: Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
A fact checking website shouldn't be the sole evidence for evaluating any claim (such as the truthfulness of a candidate). If we acknowledge that bias (unintentional or otherwise) can happen from any one source, and that at any one source is not a perfect arbiter of what is the truth, then placing such a high value on one fact checking source is a dubious basis for claiming to have proven any position.

Accusations of Hillary's difficulty with the truth are not new. They started famously with a NY Times op ed calling Hillary a "congenital liar" back in 1996:
http://www.nytimes.com/1996/01/08/opinio...-lies.html


The problem with Hillary Clinton is she lies so easily--and about trivial things along with important things. Sometimes they are amusing lies (like landing in Bosnia under enemy fire), but those "trivial" lies can be the most damning in my view. It shows that she lies so easily, even when it is not necessary to do so.

In the field of journalism, Brian Williams's false claims about being in the line of fire resulted in his shaming, loss of prestige, long term suspension from his employer, and loss of his prime time news show. What is career ending for a news anchor is apparently a minor truffle for the leader of the free world. It's a bit sad that we expect more from a journalist than someone who wants to be the leader of the most powerful country in the world.
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02-04-2016, 10:02 AM
RE: Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
(02-04-2016 05:47 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 07:40 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  As someone who worked for the Tampa Bay Times for 15 years I can tell you ...

1. We created Politifact but the Times no longer owns it.
2. The Times won a half-dozen Pulitzers for its excellence in unbiased reporting.

While I won't deny the editorial board leans left, the Politifact process is vetted and is NOT controlled by anything but facts.

You couldn't be more wrong.

I checked the Politifact website BEFORE my original post. The Tampa Bay Times in fact still owns Politifact. The Politifact Deputy Managing Editor Amy Hollyfield is a paid Tampa Bay Times employee.

Straight from the Tampa Bay Times website, they claim their parent company Times Publishing Company operates Politifact:

"About the Tampa Bay Times

The Tampa Bay Times is widely considered one of the Top Ten newspapers in America and has won 10 Pulitzer Prizes. It is Florida’s largest newspaper, with an average circulation of 397,996 Sunday and 317,270 daily (AAM FAS-FAX March 2014). The Times is produced by the Times Publishing Company, which also publishes TampaBay.com - Tampa Bay’s largest local news Web site with 2.1 million unique visitors each month (Nielsen NetView six-month average for 8/13–1/14). Additionally, the company publishes the free daily tbt*, an edition of the Tampa Bay Times, tb-two*, a free paper written by Tampa Bay area students distributed to students, and the Pulitzer Prize-winning website, PolitiFact.com; and produces special events, specialty publications, and targeted advertising programs."

Additionally, Pulitzer does not issue an award for "excellence in unbiased reporting." That isn't even a prize category. None of the Pulitzer Prizes the Tampa Bay Times has won has anything to do with unbiased reporting. The Pulitzers' they've won were mostly to individual writers for investigative type articles. https://www.tampabay.com/company/about-u...zer-prizes Let's not forget that Pulitzer is extremely biased as well, rarely giving prizes to conservative writers.

The Tampa Bay Times is a liberal newspaper. Politifact is owned and published by the Tampa Bay Times parent company. I would also add that Politifact has a history of rating republicans as "false" and Democrats as "true." They routinely publish quotes by Democrats that are true and leave out ones that aren't to make them appear more truthful. Cherry picking what they choose to rate isn't a fair method. They completely ignore the truthful statements a Republican makes and only rate things they know they can rate to be false through their biased lens.

To use your quote, you couldn't be more wrong.

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Politifact was created by the Times but is now a group project with reputable newspapers from all over the country. Your assessment of what it publishes and doesn't publish is ludicrous.

The beauty of Politifact is it shows you WHY they are lying or being truthful. So please, show us where they called a Republican a liar and the Republican was telling the truth, and use unbiased, indifferent sources.

As for the Pulitzer, I never said excellence in unbiased reporting is a category, it's a prerequisite. You're clueless about the process and journalism. Shoo.

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02-07-2016, 08:08 AM
RE: Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
This is another great article about Hillary and the obvious and pervasive sexism that surrounds her bit for power.


"The most thorough, profound and moving defense of Hillary Clinton I have ever seen."

By NewDealer

Saturday Jun 11, 2016

This refers to a piece by Michael Arnovitz in Portland OR and is the reprint (with permission) of it.

""In the course of a single conversation, I have been assured that Hillary is cunning and manipulative but also crass, clueless, and stunningly impolitic; that she is a hopelessly woolly-headed do-gooder and, at heart, a hardball litigator; that she is a base opportunist and a zealot convinced that God is on her side. What emerges is a cultural inventory of villainy rather than a plausible depiction of an actual person." —Henry Louis Gates The quote above comes from a fascinating article called “Hating Hillary”, written by Gates for the New Yorker in 1996. Even now, 20 years after it was first published, it’s a fascinating and impressive piece, and if you have a few spare moments I strongly recommend it to you. (http://www.newyorker.com/...)

And I’m reading pieces like this because now that Hillary has (essentially if not officially) won the Democratic Primary, I have become increasingly fascinated by the way so many people react to her. In truth, I sometimes think that I find that as interesting as Hillary herself. And I can’t help but notice that many of the reactions she receives seem to reflect what Gates referred to as “a cultural inventory of villainy” rather than any realistic assessment of who she really is and what she has really done."

cont on link...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/6/11/...l=facebook

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02-07-2016, 08:39 AM
RE: Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
Even if I were to grant she was more honest, that doesn't mean she is, or is even close. I would be more on the fact that she changes her policies based off popularity more than her beliefs.

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02-07-2016, 09:35 AM
RE: Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
(01-04-2016 07:07 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(01-04-2016 04:00 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Every single person I've ever known - myself included - has bigged up anecdotes in the retelling. Without intending to.
I've not once misremembered something like people trying to kill me. It just doesn't ring true, her explanation. I simply said it irks me, and it does. It smacks of stolen valor, even though it's not as clear-cut as a fake parading around with a chestful of ribbons.

What probably happened is that she mixed another situation into her story, that she was not allowed to speak about because it was a secret visitation/mission into a war zone during her Senate tenure; and that is where she did encounter sniper fire.

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02-07-2016, 10:11 AM
RE: Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
(02-07-2016 08:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Even if I were to grant she was more honest, that doesn't mean she is, or is even close. I would be more on the fact that she changes her policies based off popularity more than her beliefs.

The fact that she changes her policies based on what the people voting for her want is now a bad thing?

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02-07-2016, 10:42 AM
RE: Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
(02-07-2016 10:11 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(02-07-2016 08:39 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Even if I were to grant she was more honest, that doesn't mean she is, or is even close. I would be more on the fact that she changes her policies based off popularity more than her beliefs.

The fact that she changes her policies based on what the people voting for her want is now a bad thing?

Exactly. Some people do not understand the difference between changing your mind (via reassessment of new information or changing times) and flip-flopping.

I don't have a problem with any politician or person re-evaluating and changing their mind. But changing it every other week, month or year every time the wind blows is flip-flopping or as I call it "Mitt-Flopping". Laugh out load

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02-07-2016, 11:03 AM
RE: Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
(02-07-2016 09:35 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  What probably happened is that she mixed another situation into her story, that she was not allowed to speak about because it was a secret visitation/mission into a war zone during her Senate tenure; and that is where she did encounter sniper fire.

We know that the President flies into and out of war zones and we get reportage even on the day that happens, but they have to keep Hillary's presence secret even after the fact? And that she'd ascribe it to an event that she knew had been attended by media, meaning the story could be checked out by reviewing archival footage?

That dog don't hunt.
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02-07-2016, 11:25 AM
RE: Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
I don't think she's more honest than the others, hell, I pretty much expect them all to be dishonest at this point.
It does appear to me that she is driven to be president for the sake of being president though.
She's just not a candidate I can get very excited about.
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02-07-2016, 11:32 AM (This post was last modified: 02-07-2016 12:03 PM by Heatheness.)
RE: Hillary, More Honest Than All Her Opponents
(02-07-2016 11:25 AM)pablo Wrote:  I don't think she's more honest than the others, hell, I pretty much expect them all to be dishonest at this point.
It does appear to me that she is driven to be president for the sake of being president though.
She's just not a candidate I can get very excited about.

Fair enough. Personally I have no expectation that everyone will or should like her. Everyone has their own criteria of what they like and or what they find acceptable. I'm perfectly fine with that. Each to their own. Smile

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