Himalayan glaciers maintaining size over past decade.
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15-02-2012, 06:46 PM
RE: Himalayan glaciers maintaining size over past decade.
(15-02-2012 02:41 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Yah its just one big scam, like the entire credit industry in the US. Ohh, no wait that is the credit card industry.

Actually I am failing to understand this scam conspiracy with carbon trading... Maybe you can give us some more info on how this big score works. Ohh and while your at it, even assuming this is true, go ahead and explain how this is a bad thing.

Actually I think central banks in general are the scam.

You can do a little bit of research and see what they have planned with the charging per tonne, variable between each country and the size of the companys.....with them wanting it fully implemented by sometime 2013.

You are now taxed on air flight as that is seen as a contributor......

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/1...0W20120213

Its all just taking money off the general public.......now if they do this in a fully transparent way with the money of the people and they funnel ALL this money into alternatives and "free technology" wether that be new tech or much improved renewable energys then I see no problem.....however I know I am probably biased but I just dont trust the word of politicans and there double speak.......not when potentailly trillions of revenue can be gained from this over a subject (global warming) that is not unanimously decided.

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You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

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15-02-2012, 09:55 PM (This post was last modified: 15-02-2012 10:50 PM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Himalayan glaciers maintaining size over past decade.
(15-02-2012 06:46 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(15-02-2012 02:41 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Yah its just one big scam, like the entire credit industry in the US. Ohh, no wait that is the credit card industry.

Actually I am failing to understand this scam conspiracy with carbon trading... Maybe you can give us some more info on how this big score works. Ohh and while your at it, even assuming this is true, go ahead and explain how this is a bad thing.

Actually I think central banks in general are the scam.

You can do a little bit of research and see what they have planned with the charging per tonne, variable between each country and the size of the companys.....with them wanting it fully implemented by sometime 2013.

You are now taxed on air flight as that is seen as a contributor......

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/1...0W20120213

Its all just taking money off the general public.......now if they do this in a fully transparent way with the money of the people and they funnel ALL this money into alternatives and "free technology" wether that be new tech or much improved renewable energys then I see no problem.....however I know I am probably biased but I just dont trust the word of politicans and there double speak.......not when potentailly trillions of revenue can be gained from this over a subject (global warming) that is not unanimously decided.

97% is pretty close to unanimous. I don't think you will ever get 100% agreement on anything.

Lets say this is true and its just one large scam. Why is it these large corps are against it? I mean they are about to make a large score with this scam right? And why is it the politicians are against it, especially the republicans? The republicans certainly arent against scamming the poor. The corps are in their back pocket, or they are in theirs, either way it seems like they are the 1st ones that could cash out on this kinda scam.

I mean its not like the people and the govt isnt aware of lots of other scams going on, and they don't benefit anyone except the top 1%. So whats different here? If this is just another large corporate scam, well that would just seem like business as usual wouldn't it? Besides, whats the worst that could happen if we let this scam just kinda happen? You inefficiently get cleaner air and water? How awful....
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16-02-2012, 01:35 AM
RE: Himalayan glaciers maintaining size over past decade.
GermanyT:

I took a gander at the wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

This is the intro:
Quote:In the scientific literature, there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused mainly by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases.[3][4][5] No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view,[6] though a few organizations hold non-committal positions.[7]

This seems pretty definitive to me - I've looked at the rest of the article, but as a non-expert I trust those who do the actual science, and they're pretty much agreed that global warming is fact and that humans have caused it. What are your points of disagreement?
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16-02-2012, 08:59 AM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2012 09:21 AM by germanyt.)
RE: Himalayan glaciers maintaining size over past decade.
(16-02-2012 01:35 AM)morondog Wrote:  GermanyT:

I took a gander at the wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

This is the intro:
Quote:In the scientific literature, there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused mainly by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases.[3][4][5] No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view,[6] though a few organizations hold non-committal positions.[7]

This seems pretty definitive to me - I've looked at the rest of the article, but as a non-expert I trust those who do the actual science, and they're pretty much agreed that global warming is fact and that humans have caused it. What are your points of disagreement?

Honestly none of my points are related to current human conditions. Solar and planetary activity have effects on our climate and there is of course the fact that volcanic and ice ages have occured in the past. Many studies have found that we seem to be at the tail end of a warming period (not one as warm as some in the past have gotten) and are about 10 years into the next ice age (these estimates vary by several decades including ones that say it won't start for several). I've never seen a single global warming study that explains why the median temps are rising due to emissions but why it's not just natural Earth cycles doing it. If they could determine how our warming now is any different than warming 10,000+ years ago I might lend it some credibility. But no one has and there was no deforestation, SUVs, and manufacturing plants back then. Humans or not, the Earth will warm to a point and fall back into a frozen tundra. Just as it has for the past couple billion years.

Now, I admit that there isn't anyone doing studies that I know of that prove that current warming mirrors that of past periods. It's kind of difficult since accurate weather patterns have only been kept for about 100 years. But this too somewhat discredits climate change science. How can you take a 100 year snippit of weather history and determine that people are the exact cause of it? The Earth could warm for another few years then drop 10 degrees over 50 years and warm back up again. I lie the burden of proof on the ones claiming it and so far I haven't been convinced.

On top of that this entire movement seems to point to money and legislative power. And not just a little bit of money. Tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars and because it aims to limit pollution and cut down on deforestation environmentalists love it. It seems to me very similar theism. "Here is the conclusion, now what facts can we find to support it". The conclusion being that Earth is slightly warmer now than say 50 or 100 years ago. Thsi became evident to me when the movement changed from Global Warming to Climate Change. They were discredited during GW by new ice sheets in Antarctica and lots of articles were determine to be hoaxes. They would photoshop glacier pics to make them look like they were half melted, among other things. Now that it's CC if someone records a drop in overall temp they can still point to humans as the cause.


And then of course there's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Re...ontroversy
http://www.climategate.com/


There really is as much info against as for. I tried to exclude articles from sites that I knew were blatantly right-wing.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara...l-warming/
http://www.skepticalscience.com/
http://biggovernment.com/cstreet/2011/09...l-warming/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010...l-warming/
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cbc-glo...d-off.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sci...al_warming
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colum...roved.html
http://www.collativelearning.com/no%20co...hange.html
http://petesplace-peter.blogspot.com/200...f-man.html
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2011/07/scien...fantasies/
http://www.nolanchart.com/article4029-gl...cycle.html
http://joannenova.com.au/2009/11/a-simpl...t-manmade/
http://www.wnd.com/2007/12/45177/
http://www.kickthemallout.com/article.ph...on_Project

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16-02-2012, 09:31 AM
RE: Himalayan glaciers maintaining size over past decade.
Well Smile I will maybe read those links sometime - I don't have any great desire to though. But you admit that my position that global warming is a serious problem and is caused by us humans is a reasonable one?

Edit: please note, I was interested to read your reasons. It's just that reading reams of websites is not my favourite thing to do.
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16-02-2012, 09:32 AM (This post was last modified: 16-02-2012 09:35 AM by germanyt.)
RE: Himalayan glaciers maintaining size over past decade.
(16-02-2012 09:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  Well Smile I will maybe read those links sometime - I don't have any great desire to though. But you admit that my position that global warming is a serious problem and is caused by us humans is a reasonable one?

I admit that neither side has accurately discredited the other. And that there is more than enough science to back up either theory. I'm just not convinced.
Makes me wonder

Man-made Global Warming

The 'Theory' of Evolution


Why not the 'Theory' of Man-made Global Warming?

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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18-02-2012, 04:23 AM (This post was last modified: 18-02-2012 04:30 AM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Himalayan glaciers maintaining size over past decade.
(16-02-2012 01:35 AM)morondog Wrote:  GermanyT:

I took a gander at the wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

This is the intro:
Quote:In the scientific literature, there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused mainly by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases.[3][4][5] No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view,[6] though a few organizations hold non-committal positions.[7]

This seems pretty definitive to me - I've looked at the rest of the article, but as a non-expert I trust those who do the actual science, and they're pretty much agreed that global warming is fact and that humans have caused it. What are your points of disagreement?

I am paraphrasing here,

Herp and Derp....Regurgitate Faux News Propaganda....Herp and Derp.

(16-02-2012 08:59 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(16-02-2012 01:35 AM)morondog Wrote:  GermanyT:

I took a gander at the wikipedia article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_controversy

This is the intro:
Quote:In the scientific literature, there is a strong consensus that global surface temperatures have increased in recent decades and that the trend is caused mainly by human-induced emissions of greenhouse gases.[3][4][5] No scientific body of national or international standing disagrees with this view,[6] though a few organizations hold non-committal positions.[7]

This seems pretty definitive to me - I've looked at the rest of the article, but as a non-expert I trust those who do the actual science, and they're pretty much agreed that global warming is fact and that humans have caused it. What are your points of disagreement?

Honestly none of my points are related to current human conditions. Solar and planetary activity have effects on our climate and there is of course the fact that volcanic and ice ages have occured in the past. Many studies have found that we seem to be at the tail end of a warming period (not one as warm as some in the past have gotten) and are about 10 years into the next ice age (these estimates vary by several decades including ones that say it won't start for several). I've never seen a single global warming study that explains why the median temps are rising due to emissions but why it's not just natural Earth cycles doing it. If they could determine how our warming now is any different than warming 10,000+ years ago I might lend it some credibility. But no one has and there was no deforestation, SUVs, and manufacturing plants back then. Humans or not, the Earth will warm to a point and fall back into a frozen tundra. Just as it has for the past couple billion years.

Now, I admit that there isn't anyone doing studies that I know of that prove that current warming mirrors that of past periods. It's kind of difficult since accurate weather patterns have only been kept for about 100 years. But this too somewhat discredits climate change science. How can you take a 100 year snippit of weather history and determine that people are the exact cause of it? The Earth could warm for another few years then drop 10 degrees over 50 years and warm back up again. I lie the burden of proof on the ones claiming it and so far I haven't been convinced.

On top of that this entire movement seems to point to money and legislative power. And not just a little bit of money. Tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars and because it aims to limit pollution and cut down on deforestation environmentalists love it. It seems to me very similar theism. "Here is the conclusion, now what facts can we find to support it". The conclusion being that Earth is slightly warmer now than say 50 or 100 years ago. Thsi became evident to me when the movement changed from Global Warming to Climate Change. They were discredited during GW by new ice sheets in Antarctica and lots of articles were determine to be hoaxes. They would photoshop glacier pics to make them look like they were half melted, among other things. Now that it's CC if someone records a drop in overall temp they can still point to humans as the cause.


And then of course there's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Re...ontroversy
http://www.climategate.com/


There really is as much info against as for. I tried to exclude articles from sites that I knew were blatantly right-wing.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterferrara...l-warming/
http://www.skepticalscience.com/
http://biggovernment.com/cstreet/2011/09...l-warming/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010...l-warming/
http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/cbc-glo...d-off.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sci...al_warming
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/colum...roved.html
http://www.collativelearning.com/no%20co...hange.html
http://petesplace-peter.blogspot.com/200...f-man.html
http://www.dakotavoice.com/2011/07/scien...fantasies/
http://www.nolanchart.com/article4029-gl...cycle.html
http://joannenova.com.au/2009/11/a-simpl...t-manmade/
http://www.wnd.com/2007/12/45177/
http://www.kickthemallout.com/article.ph...on_Project

What website did you copy these laughable links from? Heck, just looking at some of them tells you right off the bat they arent credible sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sci...E2%80%8Bng

That link just goes to failed search on wikipedia, lol.
Why would I even bother clicking the others?

(16-02-2012 09:32 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(16-02-2012 09:31 AM)morondog Wrote:  Well Smile I will maybe read those links sometime - I don't have any great desire to though. But you admit that my position that global warming is a serious problem and is caused by us humans is a reasonable one?

I admit that neither side has accurately discredited the other. And that there is more than enough science to back up either theory. I'm just not convinced.
Makes me wonder

Man-made Global Warming

The 'Theory' of Evolution


Why not the 'Theory' of Man-made Global Warming?

Your enormous repertoire of theories seems like a clear indication of your knowledge on this type of subject.
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18-02-2012, 05:05 AM
RE: Himalayan glaciers maintaining size over past decade.




MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!!

Its this "need" for such things that have ultimatly led to the mashing up of the planet.

So what there soloution to this.......what can solve this massive problem of huge global corporations raping the earth and its people????

MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY!!!!! (in the form of carbon tax)

Rolleyes

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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18-02-2012, 10:57 PM (This post was last modified: 18-02-2012 11:00 PM by Chas.)
WTF?
I suggest you all do a little more research. There is evidence of increased melting of Himalayan glaciers, Greenland glaciers, North American glaciers. There's also the collapse of the Ross ice shelf.

The earth has cyclic climate - it goes in and out of ice ages.

But the facts are that the rate of change of average global temperatures is greater than any previous time, and humans are pumping millions of tons of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Causal? Correlated? Coincidence? I don't know and neither do you.

Climb down off your sky-is-falling and climate-change-denier bandwagons. If human activity is causing rapid climate change, we need to do something. If not, we can relax.

Let's do the fucking science.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-02-2012, 07:04 AM
RE: WTF?
(18-02-2012 10:57 PM)Chas Wrote:  Let's do the fucking science.

I thought it had been done and the link proven beyond reasonable doubt. In any case I'm for any scheme which ends up with us doing a bit for the environment and hopefully preserving some sort of heritage for our kids. Also cutting down on pollution ... I don't see how that can be construed as a bad thing. If someone figures a way to make money *and* help the rest of us do the right thing at the same time, good on them.
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