History.
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11-02-2017, 02:44 AM
History.
History.
A very strange subject indeed.

Thus far I have only read the following in any depth.
Greek.
Roman through west to east. Circa 700 bc to 1453 to now.
Korean history from the three kingdoms to present day.
China from First emperor.
Japan since the mirror.
Mongolian empire.
Western European following Rome's fall. Starting say, with Gregory of Tours.
Right up unto the 20th century to now.
WWII in particular.

To me it's all the same. People complain about today's issues. However I see the same issues at other times and in other places. The Eternal recurrence as old F.N. would say.

Arrogant warlords or nations and even empires come and go. It's all a circular thing. Often those most at risk are the most confident of their success.

All I've learned, aside from various incidents in history is this, what is "human nature?"

Thoughts?

Perhaps Iozu in my signature was right? Sad

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Banjo.
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11-02-2017, 03:35 AM (This post was last modified: 11-02-2017 03:49 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: History.
I would say that things are similar but not the same - Bolsheviks weren't better or worse Jacobin's, they were brand new thing and it is seeing Lenin takeover as some sort of continuation of French revolution that blinded intellectuals to true nature of soviet regime*.

ETA: I must say that I don't see much uniqueness in XX century genocides or mass murders (meaningless and politically motivated distinction I would say**) - it's not like they are crimes without precedent, one just have to look at the fate of Indians. One could look farther into the past - to destruction of Carthage or Mongols sacking of Baghdad.

Hitler wasn't very original in his idea - he even mentioned Armenians and British colonialism was good template for him.

I think that history is about long view - I find merit in Wallerstein world-system theory and I think that roots of some problems that today countries face was planted deep in past, i.e. Poland isn't fucked up cause of current gov or one preceding it, but rather by it inability to stop being peripheral country which status it get during it's union with Lithuania. Similarly more prosperous countries like France aren't great thanks to work of current gov but rather thanks to historical tendencies that it was able to exploit.

*At least this is feeling that I get from Fran├žois Furet The Passing of an Illusion: The Idea of Communism in the Twentieth Century.
**As Jean-Louis Vullierme notes in his Miroir de l'Occident. Le nazisme et la civilisation occidentale 1948 convention about genocide excluded mass murdering of people from said social class from official definition, per insistence of Soviets. Americans on the other hand were concerned with adding the clause about systematic and willful extermination so depriving masses of people of economical means of survival wouldn't count as genocide. Guess it had something to do with Indians.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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11-02-2017, 03:40 AM
RE: History.
But Stalin differs from Caracalla, how?

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11-02-2017, 03:57 AM (This post was last modified: 11-02-2017 04:03 AM by Szuchow.)
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 03:40 AM)Banjo Wrote:  But Stalin differs from Caracalla, how?

Apart from obvious like education he get, or ideology? Did Caracalla was responsible for show trials of old Bolsheviks? He made an unthinkable deal with his ideological enemy to invade another country? Did Caracalla made countries under his domination spend enormous amount of cash on military in anticipation of conflict with the West?

Their similarities are superficial. Both were tyrants? Maybe, but Roman one wasn't surrounded by Politburo nor he was responsible for Great Hunger where he tried to shift blame on peasants themselves - they supposedly died from hunger cause they wanted to make USSR look bad.

ETA: One could also suspect that they much differ in their outlook - Stalin one was determined by Marxism-leninism even if he was capable of looking beyond it. Caracalla? Whatever outlook he had it wasn't the same as one Stalin had.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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11-02-2017, 04:05 AM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 03:57 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Text above.

Yes. yes. Yes.

Same thing. Differing times. Differing situations. Same results.

Think in longer historical terms. Go beyond the century to 5, then 10....

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11-02-2017, 04:09 AM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 04:05 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(11-02-2017 03:57 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Text above.

Yes. yes. Yes.

Same thing. Differing times. Differing situations. Same results.

Think in longer historical terms. Go beyond the century to 5, then 10....

Same thing? It takes more to convince me than just asserting that they are similar when I pointed why they are not.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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11-02-2017, 04:21 AM
RE: History.
Diocletian inflation.

I am not trying to convince you. However, my respected dear friend, I have spotted a hole in your history.

That hole is time.

My point is all times resemble each other. Differently, but the same. Smile

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11-02-2017, 04:26 AM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 04:21 AM)Banjo Wrote:  Diocletian inflation.

I am not trying to convince you. However, my respected dear friend, I have spotted a hole in your history.

That hole is time.

My point is all times resemble each other. Differently, but the same. Smile

Times may resemble each other, that much I stated in my first post here even if I phrased it differently. This does not mean that Caracalla and Stalin are similar.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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11-02-2017, 04:38 AM
RE: History.
I disagree. And that is fine. However, show me the differences please.

Indeed, let's pick Sejanus as well.

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11-02-2017, 04:44 AM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 04:38 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I disagree. And that is fine. However, show me the differences please.

Indeed, let's pick Sejanus as well.

I already showed you differences. I could also mention Stalin not caring about his son in German camp, or his obsession with Trocki.

It is time when you should show similarities.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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