(10-01-2013 07:05 PM)Starcrash Wrote:
(10-01-2013 04:25 PM)Ghost Wrote: For everyone scratching their heads about the Israel/Palestine conflict, what are the sticking points of the peace negotiation? Religion? Or borders?
Also a note, countries that share religions often go to war. This is seldom mentioned.
I think I said the exact opposite. Let me check.
Quote:But it strikes me as rather rare that countries sharing a religion will go to war with each other.
Yeah, I did. This was after searching my brain for a war that involved two countries that shared a religion. Feel free to name an example or two if you can, but you'll notice that Watchman actually made a pretty impressive list of wars based on religion, and Hitchens did the same in a chapter of God is Not Great (listing current conflicts and wars). I personally couldn't come up with a single example outside of Iraq/Kuwait (and obviously civil wars, if one wants to count that). If you want to make an assertion like "countries that share religions often go to war", you should probably provide evidence.
The sticking point over the Palestinian conflict is both borders and religion (you instead made a false dichotomy of the two). The Old Testament defined the borders and said that God would restore Israel to the Jews, while the Qur'an said that Israel belonged to Islam. Are you really unaware that both religions lay claim to the entire land and say that it is the will of their respective Gods that they own it all?
As I also said in my own post, the reason for war is typically a gray area and murky. It's important to note that there are alternate (or possibly additional) reasons for the conflicts in Israel such as the Jews suddenly being given land that already belonged to someone else. As in the example of Bush's reasons for invading Iraq, the stated reason for a war can be different than the actual reason.
You obviously never studied the middle ages at all. Because christian kingdoms were in constant fighting, the muslims were in power stuggles. Hell the crusades was created to unite the warring christian kingdoms against each other. So there are hundreds of examples and you can't exclude civil wars because some were over religion and some were not. The American civil war is a good example of two sides sharing a common religion.
Also the Israel Palistine conflict boils down more to past events than religion. Sure the jews claim it from 5k years ago and the muslims from 1k years ago. But you will find that most of it comes from A. the Jews being given land than expelling the palistinians who the other countries had to take in refugees from. B. The dictators using Israel as a target to unite the people against a foreign enemy instead of fighting them. C. The constant offense from each side like Israel building settlements in land given to Palistine and the Palestinians blowing themselves up in schools and on Buses. D. They are an American ally in a region that hates us. E. The constant wars they have been in with each other have created a situation where those wars alone cause the issues of today.