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11-02-2017, 01:55 PM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 01:46 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I'm aware that world history didn't start with Russian or French revolution. I just don't agree with your examples of similarities.

Let's forget Stalin. Just for a moment.

Many dictators had their purges.

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11-02-2017, 02:01 PM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 01:55 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(11-02-2017 01:46 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I'm aware that world history didn't start with Russian or French revolution. I just don't agree with your examples of similarities.

Let's forget Stalin. Just for a moment.

Many dictators had their purges.

Yes. But is nothing more than similarity at it's most basic. It's like saying that x and y are similar cause they both killed someone.

It's just like III Reich and USSR - they are similar at first but when one looks deeper significant differences start to show. Michael Geyer Beyond Totalitarianism. Stalinism and Nazism Compared is worth checking in this regard.

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11-02-2017, 02:12 PM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 02:01 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Yes. But is nothing more than similarity at it's most basic. It's like saying that x and y are similar cause they both killed someone.

It's just like III Reich and USSR - they are similar at first but when one looks deeper significant differences start to show. Michael Geyer Beyond Totalitarianism. Stalinism and Nazism Compared is worth checking in this regard.

So we're back in the same prism.

I am talking about human nature. Not the minute differences in the Third Reich and Communist Russia.

Both Hitler and Stalin had their purges. As have many other demagogues through history.

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11-02-2017, 02:19 PM
RE: History.
Banjo

It's often said that history repeats itself. You've repeated the assertion that you view history in what you consider long chunks of time, frequently mentioning 500 years, about 7 times or so. Are you suggesting others are unaware of these timelines?
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11-02-2017, 02:21 PM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 02:12 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(11-02-2017 02:01 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Yes. But is nothing more than similarity at it's most basic. It's like saying that x and y are similar cause they both killed someone.

It's just like III Reich and USSR - they are similar at first but when one looks deeper significant differences start to show. Michael Geyer Beyond Totalitarianism. Stalinism and Nazism Compared is worth checking in this regard.

So we're back in the same prism.

I am talking about human nature. Not the minute differences in the Third Reich and Communist Russia.

Both Hitler and Stalin had their purges. As have many other demagogues through history.

Differences were hardly minute.

And dictators doing purges make them similar to the same extent that people having names make such people similar.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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11-02-2017, 02:29 PM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 02:12 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Both Hitler and Stalin had their purges. As have many other demagogues through history.

Not really comparable through history. There's even a world of difference between Stalin's and Hitler's purges. Hitler's only lasted for a few days in '34 whereas Stalin's spent the better part of a decade. And both aren't comparable to the French Revolution or any other instance in history.

Purges are the weakest argument to appeal to unchanging human behavior.If that's what you're out for you would be better advised to look for the Roman letters of Vindolandum and compare their every day concerns to our own society.
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11-02-2017, 02:48 PM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 02:29 PM)abaris Wrote:  Not really comparable through history. There's even a world of difference between Stalin's and Hitler's purges. Hitler's only lasted for a few days in '34 whereas Stalin's spent the better part of a decade. And both aren't comparable to the French Revolution or any other instance in history.

Depend on how you define purge - one could call Nazi T4 Aktion a purge after all if by purge one mean the removal of elements or members regarded as undesirable. Same could be said about people sent to camps.

Though most of Nazi violence was external rather than internal as it was in Soviet's case. Snyder wrote about this in his Bloodlands if I'm not mistaken.

Quote:Purges are the weakest argument to appeal to unchanging human behavior.If that's what you're out for you would be better advised to look for the Roman letters of Vindolandum and compare their every day concerns to our own society.

Thing is the human behavior is changing - violence is decreasing. Even browsing through Pinker The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined will show that. Sure, not everything changed but I'm not sure about this all unchanging human nature.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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11-02-2017, 02:52 PM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 02:48 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  Thing is the human behavior is changing - violence is decreasing. Even browsing through Pinker The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined will show that. Sure, not everything changed but I'm not sure about this all unchanging human nature.

It's got nothinh to do with violence. Human nature hasn't changed that much in the last 2000+ years, and that's only recorded history. The one where we have access to daily concerns. These, if you are to argue for a never changing human nature, are much more interesting than grand history with battles, nation building or prominent figures.

The letters of Vindolandum show that Romans in a remote british border garrison had the exact same concerns as we have today. The items they ask for may have changed, their feelings haven't.
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11-02-2017, 02:57 PM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 02:52 PM)abaris Wrote:  It's got nothinh to do with violence. Human nature hasn't changed that much in the last 2000+ years, and that's only recorded history. The one where we have access to daily concerns. These, if you are to argue for a never changing human nature, are much more interesting than grand history with battles, nation building or prominent figures.

The letters of Vindolandum show that Romans in a remote british border garrison had the exact same concerns as we have today. The items they ask for may have changed, their feelings haven't.


Agreed.

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11-02-2017, 02:59 PM
RE: History.
(11-02-2017 02:29 PM)abaris Wrote:  
(11-02-2017 02:12 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Both Hitler and Stalin had their purges. As have many other demagogues through history.

Not really comparable through history. There's even a world of difference between Stalin's and Hitler's purges. Hitler's only lasted for a few days in '34 whereas Stalin's spent the better part of a decade. And both aren't comparable to the French Revolution or any other instance in history.

Purges are the weakest argument to appeal to unchanging human behavior.If that's what you're out for you would be better advised to look for the Roman letters of Vindolandum and compare their every day concerns to our own society.


Sorry I missed this.

I already read those letters.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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