Poll: Did Hitler Believe in God?
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Hitler ... for the last time.
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28-01-2012, 04:16 PM
RE: Hitler ... for the last time.
(28-01-2012 10:58 AM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  They started the people to hate. Now the people they are after are Muslims. I keep waiting for the night of the broken glass. Signs of Muslims do not shop here. It's only a matter of time. Christians keep crying that they are the ones who are being persecuted by our government.

I do worry about this. I also fear it may be the atheists first at least in the US.
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28-01-2012, 04:26 PM
RE: Hitler ... for the last time.
(28-01-2012 04:16 PM)angry_liberal Wrote:  
(28-01-2012 10:58 AM)N.E.OhioAtheist Wrote:  They started the people to hate. Now the people they are after are Muslims. I keep waiting for the night of the broken glass. Signs of Muslims do not shop here. It's only a matter of time. Christians keep crying that they are the ones who are being persecuted by our government.

I do worry about this. I also fear it may be the atheists first at least in the US.

So glad you can see this.
I just had lunch with a German woman who sees the same things happening in America today as occurred pre-Nazi.
Many of the same group think tactics are in play today if one remembers history. It is just that the names have been changed.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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28-01-2012, 04:30 PM
RE: Hitler ... for the last time.
It was happening at a much larger scale back in 2002, but luckily the media stepped in to slow the trend. Not all media, but anthropologists attempts along with other groups to show the humanity of the middle east were given visibility so that people could start to empathize. Where we are right now is still not as bad as where we were 10 years ago. Hopefully as the repression rises again the fields of humanities will rise up and take the challenge to push down the tide of hate.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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28-01-2012, 06:13 PM
RE: Hitler ... for the last time.
The way that this question is phrased "Did Hitler beleive in God" actually demands the "I don't know" to be a fair and objective answer.

The truth is none of us have the capacity to go into Hitler's head and demonstrably show what he believed. We can show what he said or whom he invited into personal company but none of us can say for sure what anyone believed.

The question should have been phrased "Did religion play a large part in Hitler's Germany?". We may as well have asked "Did Hitler beleive in the dodo bird?"

Sorry but the way the question is asked the only fair answer is "I do not know".
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28-01-2012, 07:20 PM
RE: Hitler ... for the last time.
I don't understand how a picture of him in church is "checkmate".

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28-01-2012, 07:44 PM
RE: Hitler ... for the last time.
Two things spring to mind, firstly with the Hitler was/wasn’t debate, does it really matter?
The religious leaders of history have been just as bloodthirsty as the likes of Pol Pot and Stalin.
It is a twist in human nature that makes someone a megalomaniac, some will use some random god to seize control and others will use another ideal.
What they do or do not believe in matters little, just don’t go against them or you too will be standing with your back to a wall.
And of course, we must stand against them…

That leads into the “Christian America” that has so many concerned.
The parallels between pre war Nazi Germany and the economic situation of today are there.
To what extent I couldn’t say, others with a better knowledge of both situations will need to be consulted.
What I do know is that we don’t learn from the mistakes of our past, we perfect them.
If we learnt, there would have been only one war in our past, not so numerous we use them as place markers of human history.

A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. Friedrich Nietzsche
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28-01-2012, 08:11 PM
RE: Hitler ... for the last time.
(28-01-2012 07:20 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  I don't understand how a picture of him in church is "checkmate".

The "checkmate" phrase is an Edward Current thing.
He is a VERY talented and funny YouTuber.
Here is one of my favorites!



It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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28-01-2012, 08:32 PM
RE: Hitler ... for the last time.
I do believe he did and his interpretation of "the will of god" is what led to his mission to exterminate every living Jewish person off the face of the planet. I do believe that the Holocaust was his version of a sick holy war.
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28-01-2012, 11:54 PM
RE: Hitler ... for the last time.
Y'know, we had a slobberknocker argument about this a while ago and I think I've mellowed since then. Was Hitler a Christian? The historical evidence seems to confirm that. Was Christianity a driving force of his campaign? The evidence seems to point away from that. He had a clear campaign of cracking down on every religion simply because he didn't want to share power with any of the churches (it's hard to be an all powerful Führer when people put God above you).

I liken it to this. His campaign was driven by the advancement of the Aryan people but he himself was not an Aryan. His campaign was driven by the undermining of all religions but he himself was a Christian.

Is it fair to say that Hitler was an Atheist? No. Is it fair to suggest that the Nazi party was pursuing some theocratic agenda? No. That's complete revisionism.

So like most things, this is complex.

What's important to me is, why are people saying that he's an Atheist?

Many people advance the notion that history’s atrocities have been committed by religious figures/organisations only. The Nazi party was far from being a religious organisation, despite the fact that Christianity played a part in it. Canada doesn't fight religious wars even though the head of state is the head of the Church of England and because our anthem says God keep our land. Is Christianity a part of the Canadian cultural landscape and part of Canadian history? Of course. Does it drive Canada? Not at all (unless King Harper the Usurper has his way). So on that level, the Nazi party is an example of a non-religious organisation with a largely secular agenda committing acts of genocide and depravity.

Someone argued in the last thread that because he was trying to kill Jews that it was still about religion. I can't think of another scenario where that logic would be applied. If a secular organisation tries to wipe out a religious organisation, they aren't doing it because they're driven by religion. They're doing it because they want to do away with religion.

The real question in all of this is, do only religious groups commit atrocities or can secular/Atheist groups commit atrocities? That's the real question being asked. People call Hitler an Atheist as a way of proving that they can. People call Hitler a Christian religious fanatic to prove that they can't. They're both wrong of course, but wrong never stood in the way of rhetoric before so why should it now?

The bottom line is, yes. Of course secular organisations can commit atrocities. Anyone who says otherwise is selling something.

Is Hitler the perfect example? No he's not. He's neither an Atheist nor a theocratic jihadist. He's a fucking asshole failed artist with a small penis and a lust for power who butchered millions of people in order to build a utopian empire that would last a thousand years and who succeeded only in duping an entire nation into doing his murdering and ushering in a time of darkness, pain and suffering that nearly engulfed the whole world in a firestorm of lunacy. Fuck him.

But if we ever convince ourselves that some groups are exempt from the atrocity game, we're just asking for it. Let's be smarter than that shall we?

PS: Word up, Karl.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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29-01-2012, 12:46 AM
RE: Hitler ... for the last time.
Who knows what Hitler really believed in, he was such a nutter.
He certainly seems to have utilized a degree of Christian like zealatory to stir up the masses. Arguably where "the good" is seen as highly desirable from both a spiritual and nationalistic perspective, people become lame witted and tribalistic in their outlooks, with dissent a very tough option.
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