Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
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24-05-2012, 08:25 AM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
Where does your information come from Scarlet? Do you have any links to provide that support your claims? I'm not calling bullshit I am genuinely curious as to what the statistics are.

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24-05-2012, 11:40 AM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
Wow scarlet. That's a bit of a cop out isn't it. I mean if you're going to claim something is statistically insignificant, one would think you are talking about statistics. If that's the case, one would also think you'd be willing to share those statistics to back up your argument.

And I'm the one who's not thinking?

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24-05-2012, 11:57 PM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2012 12:06 AM by Scarlet Pimpernel.)
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
(24-05-2012 08:25 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Where does your information come from Scarlet? Do you have any links to provide that support your claims? I'm not calling bullshit I am genuinely curious as to what the statistics are.
Are you serious?
Are you asking me to reproduce non-existent statistics...?

Let me try to rephrase it for you then: successful immigrants who cannot speak their adopted country's language do not appear in statistics, because they are so extremely rare as to be statistically insignificant. Which means that category does not feature in statistics because there are too few of them to show up.
So to base policy on clearly extremely rare exceptions would be very stupid and irresponsible indeed.

However, if you think there are statistics showing successful immigrants who cannot speak their adopted country's language I'd like to see them.
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25-05-2012, 12:08 AM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
(24-05-2012 11:57 PM)Scarlet Pimpernel Wrote:  
(24-05-2012 08:25 AM)lucradis Wrote:  Where does your information come from Scarlet? Do you have any links to provide that support your claims? I'm not calling bullshit I am genuinely curious as to what the statistics are.
Are you serious?
Are you asking me to reproduce non-existent statistics...?

Let me try to rephrase it for you then: successful immigrants who cannot speak their adopted country's language do not appear in statistics, because they are so extremely rare. So to base policy on clearly extremely rare exceptions would be very stupid and irresponsible indeed.

However, if you think there are statistics showing successful immigrants who cannot speak their adopted country's language I'd like to see them.


Hahahahahahahaha, wait, are you saying that (just taking an example here) most (let's say 90%) of the Mexicans that immigrate to America know English? Or when you are saying "successful immigrants", you mean only those that managed to be legal? Because we all know that there are millions of all sorts of immigrants in America that speak only their native language, not English... That is one of the reasons why USA is thinking about introducing Spanish as a second language...

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25-05-2012, 12:48 AM (This post was last modified: 25-05-2012 12:58 AM by Scarlet Pimpernel.)
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
(25-05-2012 12:08 AM)Filox Wrote:  
(24-05-2012 11:57 PM)Scarlet Pimpernel Wrote:  Are you serious?
Are you asking me to reproduce non-existent statistics...?

Let me try to rephrase it for you then: successful immigrants who cannot speak their adopted country's language do not appear in statistics, because they are so extremely rare. So to base policy on clearly extremely rare exceptions would be very stupid and irresponsible indeed.

However, if you think there are statistics showing successful immigrants who cannot speak their adopted country's language I'd like to see them.


Hahahahahahahaha, wait, are you saying that (just taking an example here) most (let's say 90%) of the Mexicans that immigrate to America know English? Or when you are saying "successful immigrants", you mean only those that managed to be legal? Because we all know that there are millions of all sorts of immigrants in America that speak only their native language, not English... That is one of the reasons why USA is thinking about introducing Spanish as a second language...

Please show me credible statistics featuring a category 'successful immigrants who cannot speak their adopted country's language'. Define 'successful' any way you want.
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25-05-2012, 03:37 AM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
What? I was asking you something, I was asking YOU what did you mean by "successful immigrants". I have no idea what you are thinking with this and what it represents, so, please clarify this.

Big Grin

So, DEFINE what YOU meant by saying "successful immigrants".

So, after I know what you are saying, I can actually google some statistical data for you. Would that be OK for you?

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25-05-2012, 04:56 AM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
Scarlet, since you're the one making the claim, don't you think you should be the one providing the evidence?

As someone who works with Language Technology I have seen that the language barrier is not really as problematic as people make it out to be. First off, there are companies that hire foreign language speakers for various reasons. I don't speak a word of Chinese, and yet was offered an Internship at Baidu (China). People who are unemployed have bigger problems than not speaking the language. After all if they were qualified and educated, a crash course in the target language should be enough to make them employable. But these people have no skills, no experience, and no education.

That doesn't mean these people aren't successful though. A family that moves to the US, for example, might have parents that works, and grandparents whose job is to look after the children while the parents are away. Do they not serve a function? They make sure the children learn to speak the language of their grandparents, while school and society make sure they speak English. These children will grow up to be properly multicultural, and bring the best of both worlds to whichever country they live in. They will bring a new language, culture, history and genetic diversity to the country. Sometimes it helps to think of things on the long term.

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25-05-2012, 09:16 AM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
I was talking about basically everyone of your posts within this thread Scarlet.

Each one is laced with a claim but no evidence. Sounds like you don't have any though. I was just wondering.

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26-05-2012, 07:16 PM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
Wonder some more:

my basic claim is: there are no statistically significant numbers of successful immigrants who cannot speak their adopted country's language. (And I'll leave the definition of 'successful' up to you as long as it is 'successful' within the law). Why? Because I can't find any. If you can that would be new to me and I'd love to see it.

If you seriously keep on insisting for evidence of a negative I will have to doubt your logical faculties.

Now – vice versa – you can't claim that there are statistically significant numbers of successful immigrants – a positive – who cannot speak their adopted country's language without evidence for that (positive) claim.
So if you want to show me wrong show me those statistics with statistically significant numbers of successful immigrants – a positive – who cannot speak their adopted country's language that you base your claim on.

Or are you going to dig yourself still further into that fallacy?
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27-05-2012, 02:41 PM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
What's with people walking around with the attitudes?

I wasn't making any claim so I'm not sure if you're referring to me or not since several people addressed you at the same time.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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