Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it

[justmetoo]

I've always thought that multiculturalism was about making those hosting those of other cultures feel better about themselves, than anything. I don't think this was about accepting anybody or anything and the immigrants didn't matter at all.

Caring and being concerned about others means doing things according to what's good for others, not what makes you feel good. This to me is Ideology and is as plastic as a politicians smile.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Quote:The language barrier is not for lack of effort.

Sorry to burst your bubble: for a staggering number of non-western immigrants it IS!
Why would they tire themselves if they get welfare anyway?
So now, finally, they've changed that and made welfare conditional on speaking the language sufficiently to be employable.

[Stark Raving]

There's no bubble to burst. I was explaining a specific situation.

And to be clear, the example was put forth to help people see that blanketing a whole group because of what some do is just plain stupid. fuck it, even if MOST of that group do something, it's still stupid to assume they all do.

It,s a good reminder for all of us (including me): read what I write. Don't read into what I write.

[lucradis]

Why you calling me ugly Stark?

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

(23-05-2012 09:07 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  the example was put forth to help people see that blanketing a whole group because of what some do is just plain stupid. fuck it, even if MOST of that group do something, it's still stupid to assume they all do.

Whatever this one immigrant's good or that one immigrant's bad intentions, they all have no employable future in their chosen new land if they don't speak the lingo. Applying that 'blanket' is simple common sense, my friend.

If I moved to Shanghai I would be stupid not to learn the local language.

[Stark Raving]

If they all have no employable future, how do you explain the fact that there are immigrants who do not speak the language who are gainfully employed?

Again, the blanket doesn't apply. Just goes to show that common sense ain't so common.

[Peterkin]

Oh cripes! You still don't get it.
You go over there with your gunboats and whips, make the natives grow coffee, dig diamonds, leave their villages and families, wear white gloves and serve cocktails at seven and speak 'the language of prosperity' (English, French, Portuguese, Dutch, German... Italian, even, though i bet they never did); you give them syphilis, inapplicable government protocols and toxic waste... and then you go home. With the loot. Which keeps on following you home. So then, some of the impoverished, displaced, traumatized people follow you home, as well. They bring more interesting food (...than Dutch or English cuisine? No big challenge.) Because you feel a little bit abashed about trashing their countries, you accommodate those differences. And it doesn't work: inconvenient, expensive and gives political leverage to the neo-nazi parties. What to do? Let's punish the women! Every civilized man resents having the exotic women hidden from them anyway and we're seen to be doing something about the Muslims. (So what if it creates more domestic discord in immigrant families? So what if a few dozen caught-in-the-middle teenaged girls are killed? So what if ethnic tension increases? The fallout will be on the next government.)

Consider this: They don't love Holland. They don't really want to live in France, Germany, Canada and the US. They come to these foreign lands, only because life at home is untenable. Life at home is made untenable by the conflicts of major powers over resources. If you stopped trashing their countries, they might not need to emigrate.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

(23-05-2012 09:46 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  If they all have no employable future, how do you explain the fact that there are immigrants who do not speak the language who are gainfully employed?

Rare exceptions. Statistically non-existent.

[Stark Raving]

Statistically non-existant? I'd like to see those statistics.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

(23-05-2012 10:42 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Statistically non-existant? I'd like to see those statistics.

Do you ever think about what you type before you type it?