Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
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27-05-2012, 06:57 PM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
(27-05-2012 02:41 PM)lucradis Wrote:  What's with people walking around with the attitudes?

I'm guessing it is an automatic response to people walking around with provocations...
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27-05-2012, 06:59 PM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
Such as?

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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27-05-2012, 07:12 PM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
(27-05-2012 06:59 PM)lucradis Wrote:  Such as?

Indeed.
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27-05-2012, 07:18 PM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
OK then, you have a wonderful day.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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01-06-2012, 11:24 PM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
(23-05-2012 06:42 AM)Scarlet Pimpernel Wrote:  
(22-05-2012 12:22 PM)morondog Wrote:  I'm a little confused though.

Why is every confrontation with Muslims somehow about wearing a headscarf???
Because a headscarf is culturally symbolic for the repression of women. Mind: culturally! Not religiously! The Qur'An does not prescribe the wearing of headscarves (or burkas, or niqaabs, etc.) by women! The Qur'An does not require women to be invisible!
So any claim by Muslims that the Qur'An "commands" women to wear headscarves, burkas, or niqaabs (etc.) is totally bullshit. Those Muslims are extremely ignorant Muslims (like most are...): they don't know their own holy book.
99% of Muslims never read the Qur'An (like 99% of Catholics never read the bible...) so they have no clue what it really says. They just parrot priests/Mullahs/each other without, literally, knowing what they are talking about.
The egalitarian Dutch culture/society does not accept that women are forced by their men to openly display themselves as second class citizens.

Quote:OK. So law
enforcement should be allowed if there is a need to see the face. Right?
It is! Authorities can demand veils etc. to be lifted to check ID. Exactly like e.g. motorbike helmets, sunglasses, etc.

Quote:The face must appear in a license or similar document.
It does.

Quote:There can be
those sorts of laws in place.
They are.

Quote:But I fail to see that if a woman wants to wear a headscarf, a *law* is necessary to prevent that.
The problem is that women do not wear headscarves, burkas, niqaabs, etc., because they want to do that of their own free will but because they are forced to do that by their culture (= their menfolk)!


BTW: a headscarf does not hide the face. Consequently it is not illegal to wear a headscarf in public.
Wearing headscarves, however, like Christian cross pendants, is not accepted by some employers (a minority) who demand their personnel to be culturally and religiously neutral in dealing with customers and each other.
If that personnel wants to wear headscarves, burkas, and niqaabs they can do that in their own free time, not in the boss' time. So if a woman wears a burka or niqaab she will not find paid work in Holland. She is unemployed. And unemployed people claim dole. They can only get dole if they are 'employable' and demonstrate a considerable effort to find work/to be acceptable for prospective employers. Wearing burkas and niqaabs is not demonstrating a considerable effort to find work/to be acceptable for prospective employers. Quite the contrary. So they don't get dole.
Unsurprisingly these women – actually their husbands because Muslim women are not supposed to/don't speak to strangers; especially men – loudly shout they are being discriminated for their religion. WHICH THEY ARE NOT! It's got nothing to do with their religion, but it's got everything to do with being (and making an effort to be) employable. Which they aren't/don't, under pressure from their culture/menfolk!


The security angle:
Burkas and niqaabs hide the whole face and the whole body. It is not possible to see if there is a man or a woman under them, or, more importantly, what they carry under that robe. In this age of suicide bombers wearing bomb belts that is a grave concern. This is the reason they are trying to ban them (hasn't happened yet; you can still see burkas and niqaabs everyday in the streets of Holland although they are rare exceptions).

I am sorry, but you are an idiot that knows next to nothing of muslim culture.
1. There are 2 guiding books for Sunni Muslim(90% of muslims) The Koran and the Sunnah I have read half the koran but none of the sunnah.
2. It is required for Muslims to read the Koran to get into heaven. I believe it is in one of the five pillars of islam.
3. It is their culture, just leave them as they be and they will probably assimilate slowly anyway.

Under Repair.
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02-06-2012, 05:43 PM (This post was last modified: 02-06-2012 05:52 PM by Scarlet Pimpernel.)
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
(01-06-2012 11:24 PM)itsacow Wrote:  
(23-05-2012 06:42 AM)Scarlet Pimpernel Wrote:  Because a headscarf is culturally symbolic for the repression of women. Mind: culturally! Not religiously! The Qur'An does not prescribe the wearing of headscarves (or burkas, or niqaabs, etc.) by women! The Qur'An does not require women to be invisible!
So any claim by Muslims that the Qur'An "commands" women to wear headscarves, burkas, or niqaabs (etc.) is totally bullshit. Those Muslims are extremely ignorant Muslims (like most are...): they don't know their own holy book.
99% of Muslims never read the Qur'An (like 99% of Catholics never read the bible...) so they have no clue what it really says. They just parrot priests/Mullahs/each other without, literally, knowing what they are talking about.
The egalitarian Dutch culture/society does not accept that women are forced by their men to openly display themselves as second class citizens.

It is! Authorities can demand veils etc. to be lifted to check ID. Exactly like e.g. motorbike helmets, sunglasses, etc.

It does.

They are.

The problem is that women do not wear headscarves, burkas, niqaabs, etc., because they want to do that of their own free will but because they are forced to do that by their culture (= their menfolk)!


BTW: a headscarf does not hide the face. Consequently it is not illegal to wear a headscarf in public.
Wearing headscarves, however, like Christian cross pendants, is not accepted by some employers (a minority) who demand their personnel to be culturally and religiously neutral in dealing with customers and each other.
If that personnel wants to wear headscarves, burkas, and niqaabs they can do that in their own free time, not in the boss' time. So if a woman wears a burka or niqaab she will not find paid work in Holland. She is unemployed. And unemployed people claim dole. They can only get dole if they are 'employable' and demonstrate a considerable effort to find work/to be acceptable for prospective employers. Wearing burkas and niqaabs is not demonstrating a considerable effort to find work/to be acceptable for prospective employers. Quite the contrary. So they don't get dole.
Unsurprisingly these women – actually their husbands because Muslim women are not supposed to/don't speak to strangers; especially men – loudly shout they are being discriminated for their religion. WHICH THEY ARE NOT! It's got nothing to do with their religion, but it's got everything to do with being (and making an effort to be) employable. Which they aren't/don't, under pressure from their culture/menfolk!


The security angle:
Burkas and niqaabs hide the whole face and the whole body. It is not possible to see if there is a man or a woman under them, or, more importantly, what they carry under that robe. In this age of suicide bombers wearing bomb belts that is a grave concern. This is the reason they are trying to ban them (hasn't happened yet; you can still see burkas and niqaabs everyday in the streets of Holland although they are rare exceptions).

I am sorry, but you are an idiot that knows next to nothing of muslim culture.
1. There are 2 guiding books for Sunni Muslim(90% of muslims) The Koran and the Sunnah I have read half the koran but none of the sunnah.
2. It is required for Muslims to read the Koran to get into heaven. I believe it is in one of the five pillars of islam.
3. It is their culture, just leave them as they be and they will probably assimilate slowly anyway.

1) You are a liar because you are not sorry at all.
2) You prove that you don't know the difference between Muslim religion and Islamic culture. Like 99% of Muslims you mix up the two and attribute religious importance to what are really cultural traits. Cultural traits that predate the Prophet by millennia but were never referenced by him.

"It is their culture". "Their culture" is causing a lot of human misery due to it's backwardness and total lack of emancipation. In their own homelands and in mine! They don't leave me be! Like the fucking Jehovah's Witnesses they keep encroaching on my life, on my culture, in my land! They demand to be treated as equals yet they don't treat non-Muslims – infidels to them – as equals. Intolerance is their middle name. Pure elitism again. "We, religious Muslims, are better than you dogs". A.k.a. fascism. This time under the guise of a religion. Islam.

As long as their participation in crime statistics is 5 times as high as that of indigenous westerners they can shut the fuck up!
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03-06-2012, 06:38 AM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
It's not their culture that's problematic. It's their religion.

Nobody seems to complain about Christian or Jewish Arabs, or even atheist Arabs. They don't wear headscarfs, they don't want to enforce their own laws, and they don't read the Quran. They still share a cutlure with Muslim Arabs. They have the same food, music, language, and history. They even have the same god, they just have different books about their god.

"But the point is, find somebody to love. Everything else is overrated." - HouseofCantor
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03-06-2012, 09:56 PM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
(02-06-2012 05:43 PM)Scarlet Pimpernel Wrote:  
(01-06-2012 11:24 PM)itsacow Wrote:  I am sorry, but you are an idiot that knows next to nothing of muslim culture.
1. There are 2 guiding books for Sunni Muslim(90% of muslims) The Koran and the Sunnah I have read half the koran but none of the sunnah.
2. It is required for Muslims to read the Koran to get into heaven. I believe it is in one of the five pillars of islam.
3. It is their culture, just leave them as they be and they will probably assimilate slowly anyway.

1) You are a liar because you are not sorry at all.
2) You prove that you don't know the difference between Muslim religion and Islamic culture. Like 99% of Muslims you mix up the two and attribute religious importance to what are really cultural traits. Cultural traits that predate the Prophet by millennia but were never referenced by him.

"It is their culture". "Their culture" is causing a lot of human misery due to it's backwardness and total lack of emancipation. In their own homelands and in mine! They don't leave me be! Like the fucking Jehovah's Witnesses they keep encroaching on my life, on my culture, in my land! They demand to be treated as equals yet they don't treat non-Muslims – infidels to them – as equals. Intolerance is their middle name. Pure elitism again. "We, religious Muslims, are better than you dogs". A.k.a. fascism. This time under the guise of a religion. Islam.

As long as their participation in crime statistics is 5 times as high as that of indigenous westerners they can shut the fuck up!

Have you ever even known a muslim? I was just wondering because I have not.
Intolerance is not their middle name. They were originally very accepting of other religions until the crusades came along and christians started eating their babies and slaughtering innoccents by the thouasands. They then rallied behind a mamluk caliph called Baybars and drove the last remaining toehold of christians from the middle east.
As time passed they slowly became more tolerant again and soon were living in peace with those of other religions as long as they paid an Infidel Tax. Then Bush came along and declared a crusade for democracy. Then all the muslims hugged their babies for their religious leaders would tell them of their past and they knew what crusade meant. Roast Baby.
So then a MINORITY of muslims decided to declare Jihad on the infidels and began suicide bombing.

How are they encroaching on your culture and your life? Do they go around telling you to do this, and to do that?
Show me where the statistics show that they participate in 5 times the crime. Even if that is true there is probably a reason for it. Intolerant Police Officers that think just because they are muslim, they must be doing something wrong. They are like you, intolerant idiots who think they are superior because they are not muslims.

Under Repair.
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04-06-2012, 01:08 AM
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
Itsacow, it's not unlikely that both sides are at fault. Basically for the same crime - preferring to demonize each other rather than talk about it. And yeah, if they do prefer that route there is plenty of ammunition for each side too.
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04-06-2012, 06:59 AM (This post was last modified: 04-06-2012 07:04 AM by Scarlet Pimpernel.)
RE: Holland kills the multiculturalism that is killing it
(03-06-2012 09:56 PM)itsacow Wrote:  Have you ever even known a muslim? I was just wondering because I have not.

Well that explains your total ignorance on the subject then, doesn't it! Big Grin
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