Poll: Should Holocaust Denial Be Considered A Crime
Yes
No
Only in countries where the holocaust took place
I'm as yet undecided
I have no idea, hell, I'd don't even know why I'm voting
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Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?
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17-03-2012, 05:23 PM
RE: Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?
(14-03-2012 07:47 PM)Eternal Wrote:  
(14-03-2012 02:38 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(13-03-2012 10:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-03-2012 09:33 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  I like how many people overwhelmingly said no, yet so many gave TheArcticSage negative rep.

Hypocrite much?

No, not hypocritical. TheArcticSage has the right to profess his idiotic, shallow beliefs, as do Egor and KC. I have the freedom to disagree with their beliefs and to say so.

Openly disagreeing with them is the opposite of hypocritical. Maybe you need to check the definition of the word.

People said they have the right to make such a claim, and then give him a negative reputation. That is obviously hypocritical...maybe you need to look up the definition.

You are talking out of your arse man.

Hypocritical would be to say he has the right to make such a claim, then not allowing him to do so. The fact that he has been able to do so makes it not hypocritical.

Giving him a negative reputation is showing you disagree with his opinion, not with his right to express it.

His right to make a claim and someones right to not agree with it are 2 seperate issues.

If you are not convinced then please provide me with your definition of Hypocritical and demonsatrate logically why you make this claim (as above does not make sense) then I will show you why you are wrong.

You can't say he has the right to say something, and then punish him for doing it. That is not freedom of speech.

Arguing with him is showing you disagree with his opinion.

Come on now, that is pretty obvious.
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17-03-2012, 05:32 PM
RE: Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?
Of course that is freedom of speech, it isn't just for one person. I have the right to express my distaste however I want.

So the alternative would be to agree with him because he has the right to express it. Or does freedom of speech meen that I am not allowed to disagree with someone?

I also don't think I punished him, I just didn't agree with him.

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
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17-03-2012, 05:53 PM
RE: Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?
(17-03-2012 05:32 PM)Eternal Wrote:  Of course that is freedom of speech, it isn't just for one person. I have the right to express my distaste however I want.

So the alternative would be to agree with him because he has the right to express it. Or does freedom of speech meen that I am not allowed to disagree with someone?

I also don't think I punished him, I just didn't agree with him.

No, you don't have the right to punish someone for saying something in public. You can argue and criticize all you want, but you can't punch them in the face. Giving him a negative reputation because you don't agree with his opinion is akin to punching him in the face.

Freedom of speech doesn't exist if its legal for you to punch people who have and express opinions that differ from yours.
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17-03-2012, 06:08 PM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2012 06:27 PM by shiranl.)
RE: Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?
(17-03-2012 05:20 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(17-03-2012 04:50 PM)shiranl Wrote:  Yes, simply because it begins with deniel and can easily escalate to a second Holocaust.

As atheism will lead to another Stalin? Should we all stop denying god then?

Because Stalin did what he did because he was an atheist?
It isn't equivalent.

The Holocaust was caused by Nazis, and it is denied by Neo-Nazis. Since we can't change those psychos the cognetive thought process in order to prevent them from rising again and cause another Holocaust, the only thing left is to shut their mouthholes up.
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17-03-2012, 06:56 PM
RE: Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?
(17-03-2012 06:08 PM)shiranl Wrote:  Because Stalin did what he did because he was an atheist?
It isn't equivalent.

The Holocaust was caused by Nazis, and it is denied by Neo-Nazis. Since we can't change those psychos the cognetive thought process in order to prevent them from rising again and cause another Holocaust, the only thing left is to shut their mouthholes up.

It's not fair when you silence the defendant, it then becomes one sided, and there's a monopoly over the court case. Maybe Neo-Nazis know something you don't? Therefore when make it so that they can't say their side of the story, you shut yourself from the world.

You could easily be the most biased atheist I've ever met on this subject.
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17-03-2012, 07:41 PM
RE: Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?
(14-03-2012 02:38 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  
(13-03-2012 10:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(13-03-2012 09:33 PM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  I like how many people overwhelmingly said no, yet so many gave TheArcticSage negative rep.

Hypocrite much?

No, not hypocritical. TheArcticSage has the right to profess his idiotic, shallow beliefs, as do Egor and KC. I have the freedom to disagree with their beliefs and to say so.

Openly disagreeing with them is the opposite of hypocritical. Maybe you need to check the definition of the word.

People said they have the right to make such a claim, and then give him a negative reputation. That is obviously hypocritical...maybe you need to look up the definition.

No, that's not obviously hypocritical. I firmly believe in his right to be wrong.
I believe in my right to express my opinion of his idiotic beliefs by giving him a negative rating. That is not hypocrisy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-03-2012, 07:44 PM (This post was last modified: 17-03-2012 07:49 PM by Eternal.)
RE: Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?

No, you don't have the right to punish someone for saying something in public. You can argue and criticize all you want, but you can't punch them in the face. Giving him a negative reputation because you don't agree with his opinion is akin to punching him in the face.

Freedom of speech doesn't exist if its legal for you to punch people who have and express opinions that differ from yours.
[/quote]

I haven't given him bad reputation by the way, partly because I don't know how and partly because I don't care about the rep thingies.

We have covered this once. You are presuming that whoever negged him subscribes to the same definition of rep points as you.

Your argument is based on an assumption.

Just out of interest, when is it ok to give someone a bad rep point?

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
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17-03-2012, 07:59 PM
RE: Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?
(17-03-2012 07:41 PM)Chas Wrote:  I firmly believe in his right to be wrong.

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18-03-2012, 02:35 AM
RE: Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?
Quote:It's not fair when you silence the defendant, it then becomes one sided, and there's a monopoly over the court case. Maybe Neo-Nazis know something you don't? Therefore when make it so that they can't say their side of the story, you shut yourself from the world.

You could easily be the most biased atheist I've ever met on this subject.

Well, they aren't defendants. Their side is pure and irrational hate, fed up by stories which should have gone from the earth long time ago. Yes, they know how to hate just for the sake of hating, and excuse me- I don't want to learn such thing, and I don't think other people should learn such thing. Didn't you were the one who said hate is irrational?

believe me, I am very much relieved about you calling me biased.
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18-03-2012, 04:10 AM
RE: Holocaust Denial ........ A Crime?
It is possible to disagree with someone quite strongly and still maintain a belief that they have the freedom to express it.

If I think someone is a cunt I will tell them so. They have a right to try to explain why they aren't or to insult me back.

What I can't understand is why many seem to think that you can only reply in a civilised manner and if you don't then your response isn't valid. If I have no respect for someones opinions and do not believe they are being honest (misguided or not) why should I then maintain a false civility. I appreciate that many will not respond to answers that are not civilised, that is their choice.

For me it is the same as a respect for religion. Why should I respect religion? I will discuss it in a civilised manner if someone else does the same. If someone is however persistent in their ignoring of facts, misleading with their representations and at times just plain offensive then the civility will cease.

"Belief means not wanting to know what is true"
Friedrich Nietzsche
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