Homeless people.
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09-05-2013, 12:10 PM
RE: Homeless people.
I'm surprised to hear you say you think your homosexuality is a result of life choices. I firmly disagree with that assertion and I think that mindset probably has something to do with your disdain of the homeless.

Not everything in life is an economic decision. It would be wonderful if it were but sadly, this powerful machine we have between our ears is far too complicated and fragile for such a simplistic existence.


Let me ask you... do you hate these women:

[Image: AHIGHCASTELADYSDAINTYLILYFEETjpg.img_ass...00x618.jpg]

How about these:

[Image: GN-11a.jpg]

Would you hate a man who'd had his legs broken as a child, because he couldn't run a marathon?

Those injuries are all visible and so most people empathize with the victim. However, there is a significant amount of injury that can be done to the human brain as a result of abusive child rearing. We can't see it without a brain scan but it none the less exists and it none the less incapacitates the victim.

There are very few people who actually make a conscious effort to be homeless and those people are normally the one's who choose to hike across a country or travel as a way of life rather than settling down in one location, so they don't meet the criteria of your hate, I would suspect.

As far as the others are concerned... sit down with a homeless person one of these days and have a conversation with them. Ask them about their past. Let them tell you what they've been through in life and then ask yourself where you would be in those same circumstances.

That's not to say that humans can't overcome hardship, because we are incredibly resilient. But the human brain is immensely complicated and there are no two people who can experience all the same things in exactly the same way.... thus, there can never be an identical set of circumstances, even among twins.

Scientists have now learned that a good deal of psychological injury can and does occur in utero, so the making of a homeless man or woman can start even before birth and even in lieu of the best efforts of the pregnant mother.

I've found that hate stems from fear and fear stems from a lack of knowledge or understanding. With that said, I think that if you would learn why humans can be so mentally injured that they cannot hold a job or interact successfully in society, you'd lose that bit of hate you hold in your heart for strangers and replace it with some empathy.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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09-05-2013, 06:17 PM
RE: Homeless people.
Quote: Hey, Earmuff.

Discuss? It was an ignorant hate-filled rant. Is there a larger point? I don't get it.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Yes there is Ghost. Why should I help those that will not help themselves?
Seriously, WINS (our welfare system) building is just down the road. They give you a weekly check, they even pay for things like petrol and food and cloths ontop of that weekly check, I know because I've been on it!
There's literally zero reason to be homeless unless you're spending this weekly check on something other then rent, like ohhh I don't know, drugs and alcohol.

Quote:Well, 'Muffs, that was even worse than I expected from the title. Your lack of empathy is stunning.Coffeedrinker

Why should I have empathy for them? They're there day after day begging for money and then screaming abuse at people when they don't get it.
There is a system in place specifically to help them, yet day after day they're there...
It's like at least pick up a guitar or something and earn your money. Being popped out a vagina is not a good enough excuse for me to have empathy for you.

(09-05-2013 09:38 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  Hey Earmuffs!

So, when you complain to us about not having enough money to get a DP on your newest rental, or not enough money for your vanilla coke, or the fuel for your motorbike, or, or, or- dude, why the hell can't you just get that shit? It's sooo easy. Life is a breeze. HELLO! Why are you so lame-ass in your bracket of income. You should just get a better job and afford all the shit you've complained about, you could be just as rich as other richer people. Seriously.

(With love Heart buddy)

My parents are poor as fuck, you don't see me using that as an excuse? I worked for all I have now, my motorbike, my computer, my tv, my xbox, cloths etc.. Everything I own I own because I worked for it.
And yes I might bitch and complain about not having enough money for this that and the other but I don't ask you guys for money? I don't ask anyone for money, but I will ask the state for money if I really need it because that's what it's there for. AND I don't make excuses or blame anyone else for where I am today.

Quote:Interesting. I've read a few statistical essays on the homeless as a population and here are people in the US who actually go around and gather demographics on those populations. Personally, I try to figure out what type of homeless people there are in the area wherever I happen to be. From personal experience, it always appears to be people from a group who may have formerly been oppressed or disenfranchised in some way, while many or most, just seem to have been on the edge and then fell through. Once a group or individual falls into that kind of entropic system, it's difficult to climb out.

No, I don't buy into this. Especially here.
There are plenty of very successful Maori, there are even heaps of Maori politicians. Not to mention Maori Iwi (tribes) are super super rich.
Maori have far more opportunity then any other ethnical race in this country.
If they choose to take those opportunities or not is on them and if they choose to use their background as an excuse not to take those opportunities, then fuck them.

Quote:I'm surprised to hear you say you think your homosexuality is a result of life choices.

I didn't.

Quote:I expected a logical exploration of cause and effect from Muffs. Fail.

Ok here you go Dom.

Bad life choices --> homeless --> bad life choices --> stays homeless

Quote:Let me ask you... do you hate these women:

I don't know them well enough.
Though I suspect they're not homeless and annoy me when I'm coming out of noodle canteen, so probably not.

Quote:Those injuries are all visible and so most people empathize with the victim. However, there is a significant amount of injury that can be done to the human brain as a result of abusive child rearing. We can't see it without a brain scan but it none the less exists and it none the less incapacitates the victim.

While I do agree, again the state does help those people too.
The state will help you into a home etc.. And there are jobs for disabled people, it is recognized today (disabled people that is) and people do go out of their way to help them if they require it.

Quote:As far as the others are concerned... sit down with a homeless person one of these days and have a conversation with them.

lol.

Quote:I've found that hate stems from fear and fear stems from a lack of knowledge or understanding. With that said, I think that if you would learn why humans can be so mentally injured that they cannot hold a job or interact successfully in society, you'd lose that bit of hate you hold in your heart for strangers and replace it with some empathy.

I doubt it, they'll always pester me for money and call me names when I don't give it, they'll always stand in shop doorways asking for money, take up all the fast food seats and be a constant eye sore on the streets. Thus, I will likely always hate them.




I think people make excuses for them because they feel sorry for them for being on the side walk begging for money. It's not.. what's the word? emotionally acceptable to hate them.
There are very successful people who have had similar if not harder backgrounds then a lot of homeless people. The difference between them and homeless people is that they didn't use it as an excuse to make poor decisions or not try.
Yet somehow people feel empathic towards homeless people, it baffles me, it's not rational.

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09-05-2013, 06:37 PM
RE: Homeless people.
You shouldn't feel empathic toward homeless people; they're all the same Undecided! Personally, I feel no empathy for people from, say, New Zealand, who have to deal with homeless people all day; all New Zealander's are the same. Drinking Beverage

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09-05-2013, 07:07 PM (This post was last modified: 09-05-2013 10:25 PM by kim.)
RE: Homeless people.
(09-05-2013 06:17 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  I'm surprised to hear you say you think your homosexuality is a result of life choices.

I didn't.

You kinda did. But I see now that it was a typo.

As for the rest, you're asking people to do something they aren't capable of doing. As with a man whose legs are permanently disfigured, it doesn't matter how many times you offer to train him as an olympic athlete... he simply cannot do it.

The same holds for most homeless people. It isn't that there is no one who would help them, it's that they cannot be helped with a check. They can't be helped with a free house. Just like you can't help the man I mentioned above by offering a new running outfit and a pair of running shoes.... he is incapable of using those things.

These people have injuries as well. That you can't see them doesn't mean they don't exist.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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09-05-2013, 07:39 PM
Homeless people.
In my country... Damn, I love to say that with Borat accent! :)

Anyhow, in my country loitering is a crime.

In my country we find offensive to be exposed to someone else's body odors.

So... You get kicked out of every place if you smell bad and in jail if sleeping in the street. If mental problem is found then locked out in an institution. No welfare and shit like that.

This means that been homeless isn't easy at all. Not saying that been homeless is easy at all buy its easier here.

I have to admit that I'm a bit racist in this topic because I don't feel the same way towards a black homeless than towards a white homeless... Even worse towards those white kids that call themselves gutterpunks.

However, I think the army should have a program to brake them down into functioning citizens.

I also think that the biohazard they represent to other citizens is an issue that should be addressed. Last night, there was a homeless man in the train I took home, smelled like shit and had gross wounds in his hands, like staff infection or something... Talking shit and loud insults to everyone. There was a family with kids in that train that had to put out with that.

I think that people like that should be locked away for their own good. Take one of those assholes in and release a young kid that was convicted for weed.
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09-05-2013, 08:16 PM
RE: Homeless people.
(09-05-2013 07:39 PM)Weeeeee_Zard Wrote:  However, I think the army should have a program to brake them down into functioning citizens.

Right. And when your paint job gets dull on your car, the best way to fix it is to bash away at it with a sledge hammer.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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09-05-2013, 09:07 PM
RE: Homeless people.
I think there's a whole lotta confusion between "homeless" and "mentally ill" happening here.

Muffs, you hate the guy that begs you for money then screams at you because he begs you for money then screams at you. He sounds like a certifiable nut. If he is, in fact mentally ill, then he deserves your pity, in the least, and more reasonably, your assistance. But you don't hate him because he's homeless.

I don't suspect you would have hated me when I was homeless, nor would you have even known I was at a glance.

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09-05-2013, 09:12 PM
RE: Homeless people.
(09-05-2013 09:07 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  I think there's a whole lotta confusion between "homeless" and "mentally ill" happening here.

Muffs, you hate the guy that begs you for money then screams at you because he begs you for money then screams at you. He sounds like a certifiable nut. If he is, in fact mentally ill, then he deserves your pity, in the least, and more reasonably, your assistance. But you don't hate him because he's homeless.

I don't suspect you would have hated me when I was homeless, nor would you have even known I was at a glance.

Same here.

This response, also, warrants a meme:

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09-05-2013, 09:19 PM
RE: Homeless people.
Hey, Earmuff.

I don't know where to begin. I can't answer your "why should I..." question, because it's rhetorical. You aren't asking, you're telling. I can't say much more than what you're saying is ignorant (and I'm not trying to dismiss you as a person, I mean it is lacking information and understanding, that it's an unsophisticated argument) and hate-filled. No qualifier for that one, it's just hate-filled. I don't think I agree with anything you've said and I'm actually sickened by a lot of it, so any conversation would either require an utter overhaul of your position (which is probably not likely, I'm cool with that), or an endless impasse because our two views are irreconcilable. So I've seen your argument and I accept it, I just disagree on a fundamental level.

Anyway, I don't like your position and I think you're grossly over simplifying the issue, but you seem very passionate, so I'll leave you to it. Just... I hope you reconsider.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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09-05-2013, 09:39 PM
RE: Homeless people.
(09-05-2013 09:19 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Earmuff.

I don't know where to begin. I can't answer your "why should I..." question, because it's rhetorical. You aren't asking, you're telling. I can't say much more than what you're saying is ignorant (and I'm not trying to dismiss you as a person, I mean it is lacking information and understanding, that it's an unsophisticated argument) and hate-filled. No qualifier for that one, it's just hate-filled. I don't think I agree with anything you've said and I'm actually sickened by a lot of it, so any conversation would either require an utter overhaul of your position (which is probably not likely, I'm cool with that), or an endless impasse because our two views are irreconcilable. So I've seen your argument and I accept it, I just disagree on a fundamental level.

Anyway, I don't like your position and I think you're grossly over simplifying the issue, but you seem very passionate, so I'll leave you to it. Just... I hope you reconsider.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Ya know Matt, this response is why I've always liked you, and why so many on here don't. Difference between them and me is, I'm buyin it, and they ain't. Where many mistakenly see sarcasm, I see the genuine article.

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