Homeopathy mechanism(s)
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26-05-2013, 03:39 AM
RE: Homeopathy mechanism(s)
It only remembers when you shake it.
But also, the sugar you pour the water onto remembers. You don't have to shake that.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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26-05-2013, 04:03 AM
RE: Homeopathy mechanism(s)
Isn't this all water under the bridge?






Or is it like a bridge over troubled waters?

Consider

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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26-05-2013, 05:20 AM
RE: Homeopathy mechanism(s)
Looking at Chas' latest threads, me thinks someone gave him some water with strange memories...

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26-05-2013, 10:51 AM
RE: Homeopathy mechanism(s)
*bump*

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-05-2013, 10:05 AM
RE: Homeopathy mechanism(s)
For all of you whi say "Homeopathy is just placebo effect" I invite you to read this article:

The Placebo Effect: Big Trouble for Pharmaceutical Stocks?
Quote:The Placebo Effect: Big Trouble for Pharmaceutical Stocks?

The medical community is abuzz over recent statements made by Irving Kirsch, the Associate Director of the
Placebo Studies Program at Harvard Medical School.

On February 19, “60 Minutes” correspondent Lesley Stahl interviewed Kirsch, who essentially stated that antidepressant
prescription drugs are a giant, fraudulent waste of money. He said so in far less offensive terms, of course, but he said it nonetheless.
And the pharmaceutical industry knows very well how to interpret his report that “the difference between the effect of a placebo
and the effect of an antidepressant is minimal for most people.”

As CBS News states, “Kirsch’s views are of vital interest to the 17 million Americans who take the drugs, including children as young as six,
and to the pharmaceutical industry that brings in $11.3 billion a year selling them.”

Kirsch, who has his Ph.D. in psychology, has put 36 years into studying the placebo effect: the positive physical and psychological influence
of dummy drugs on patients. So he has a solid academic leg to stand on when he says that placebos work nearly or just as well as the real deal
in treating irritable bowel syndrome, repetitive strain injuries, ulcers and Parkinson’s disease, among other physical disorders
.
If true, his postulation begs the question: If patients’ minds and bodies can be so thoroughly faked out, where does that leave the pharmaceutical industry?

With more and more North Americans and Europeans taking medication for a myriad of complaints, a strong argument can be
made that the West just needs to suck it up and deal with it.

Over the last few months, stories have come out indicating that one in four American women – and over 20% of overall
Americans – take medication for mental disorders. In Europe, that number climbs to 38%.
But apparently unsatisfied with such figures, the American Psychiatric Association’s (APA) latest edition of the Diagnostic
and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders tried to add shyness and common grief – such as at the loss of a loved one – to
the list of listed disorders, all but demanding more drugs be prescribed.

Some say those rising numbers show progress at work, since many people suffering from mental and physical conditions weren’t
receiving proper treatment even a decade ago. But others say they’re just signs of the times, when life is far more stressful
or people are far less resilient.
One way or the other, Kirsch believes they’re gullible above all else. During the “60 Minutes” interview, he cited a study of
osteoarthritic patients where some participants received actual knee surgeries and others were merely cut open and sewed right back up.
The researchers actually found that the latter group could walk and climb better than their actually-operated-upon fellow lab
rats for a full year. After the two-year mark “there was no difference at all between the real surgery and the sham surgery.”
Nor is it all in the patient’s head, Kirsch points out, even if it might start there. Placebos can actually result in lowered
blood pressure and pulse rates, and decreased pain.
Far from implausible, completely separate research can back him up. Numerous studies have been done to prove that mental and emotional
strain can easily affect everything from immune systems to fertility issues.
Pharmaceuticals Strike Back

Not so fast, say numerous doctors, mostly in the psychiatric persuasion. Quick to defend his profession’s prescriptions, Dr. Michael
Thase, who teaches psychiatry at the University of Pennsylvania’s School of Medicine, was all too happy to share his views to “60 Minutes,” as well.
While he fully agrees that the placebo effect is real, he says it isn’t nearly as helpful as Kirsch claims.

“I think… he’s confusing the results of studies versus what goes on in practice… Our own work indicates pretty convincingly” that the drugs
have “a large and meaningful effect for a subset of the patients in these studies.”
Undoubtedly Kirsch and his scientific supporters, and Thase and his, can argue the point until both of them need to take drugs – real or faked – to
cope with the stress of arguing in circles. But one conclusion seems fairly clear.
For better or worse, the West is fairly addicted to its prescription medication. And statistical analysis over the last several years indicates
that reliance will only increase as time goes on.
Will reports like this change anything for pharmaceutical companies? That’s a good question. Even with a decline in reliance on the drugs here,
use in emerging economies is rising and it’s likely pharmaceutical companies can expect to keep increasing production levels, for now.
Kirsch may very well be right in the end. It’s just doubtful his findings will impact the market anytime soon… if ever.

Src: http://www.investmentu.com/2012/February...tocks.html

There's a possibility that many drugs are working just because you believe they'll work. Same thing with homeopathy.

The big difference: $$$$ money $$$$ lots of $$$ money $$$.


If you read the article you can see that those results are based on scientific research.

So again. Dear Mods: please do move this thread to the Science forum ASAP.

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27-05-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: Homeopathy mechanism(s)
Going to wander in to say that my once naked parrot is still NOT plucking her feathers...so I will keep giving her the homeopathic solution cause she is so damn smart that she knows it's supposed to help her stop plucking. She is just humoring me...I think she works for the company that sells it. She probably has a retirement plan.

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27-05-2013, 10:13 AM
RE: Homeopathy mechanism(s)
(27-05-2013 10:10 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Going to wander in to say that my once naked parrot is still NOT plucking her feathers...so I will keep giving her the homeopathic solution cause she is so damn smart that she knows it's supposed to help her stop plucking. She is just humoring me...I think she works for the company that sells it. She probably has a retirement plan.

I pointed out previously that that remedy is herbal, not homeopathic.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-05-2013, 10:14 AM
RE: Homeopathy mechanism(s)
You mean they LIED on the label...fuckers!

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27-05-2013, 10:14 AM
RE: Homeopathy mechanism(s)
Fucking CIA...they screw up everything.

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27-05-2013, 01:11 PM (This post was last modified: 27-05-2013 01:49 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Homeopathy mechanism(s)
(25-05-2013 04:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  Is it primarily the memory of the molecules in the water that is the scientific explanation for the effectiveness of homeopathy? Consider

It's gotta be something else. If water had memory than I wouldn't need to buy vodka, I could just drink the condensate drawoff from the distillation process which should still get me drunk since it remembers being alcohol. ... Gotta be something else. Tongue

(27-05-2013 10:13 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(27-05-2013 10:10 AM)Anjele Wrote:  Going to wander in to say that my once naked parrot is still NOT plucking her feathers...so I will keep giving her the homeopathic solution cause she is so damn smart that she knows it's supposed to help her stop plucking. She is just humoring me...I think she works for the company that sells it. She probably has a retirement plan.

I pointed out previously that that remedy is herbal, not homeopathic.

Angie's anecdotal experience is not so readily dismissed and, based on the bird forums, her anecdotal experience is not an isolated one. When I checked Angie's product out a while ago (Pluck No More I think, correct me if I'm wrong Angie), it's not clear whether it's herbal or homeopathic. They toss around the term "homeopathic" a lot but they don't give any concentrations for the ingredients so it's impossible to really categorize it either way. But there's a shitload of ingredients there. It could be that even in very low concentrations the combination of this shitload of ingredients (many of which are toxic so they would have to be in very low concentrations or there'd be dead birds and lawsuits everywhere) has a synergistic effect.

Not all bird enthusiasts are thrilled by the ingredients, though:

"I know alot of people are using this with great results. I would like to know if there are any studies on longterm effects on the birds. The list of ingredients reads like a murder/torture movie. Here are most of the ingredients.

Aconitum Napelius - Wolf's bane, monksbane. Psychioactive, hallucinogenic, TOXIC.
Apis Mellifica - Honey bee. ground up, including venom. TOXIC.
Arnica Montana - Leopard's bane, Mountain Tobacco. primary effect on ingestion is stomach swelling and internal bleeding. Causes low-grade inflammation in the body. TOXIC.
Arsenicum Album - Arsenic. Buuilds up in body slowly, causing illness and death. TOXIC.
Belladonna - Nightshade. narcotic, diuretic, sedative, antispasmodic mydriatic. Seeds of this plant - no apparent effects on birds, all other parts TOXIC. Hope they only used the seeds.
Ignatia Amara - Strychnine. Rat poison. TOXIC.
Symphytum Officinale - Blackwort, Comfrey. BANNED in most countries for being dangerous. Contains half a dozen alkaloids known to cause long-term accumulative, non-reversible liver damage. Damage will usually not be found until increased liver activity, such as giving birth. Comfrey has also shown to be carcinogenic in laboratory rodents. TOXIC.
Bellis Perennis - English Daisy
Byronia Alba - Wild Hops
Calendula Officinalis - marigold.
Chammomilla - Chammomile
Cistus Canadensis - haven't been able to find yet, will update if I do.
Clematis Erecta - Virgin's Bower, causes similar effects as poison oak poison ivy.
Ferrum Canadensis - doesn't actually exist, but I believe it refers to Sanguinaria Canadensis, or bloodroot. A flesh-eating plant used by natives to treat things like ringworm and warts. TOXIC.
Ferrum Phosphorum - Iron Phosphate. A pesticide used to kill slugs and snails. Not usually harmful except to it's target.
Histaminum - At least a dozen things with this word in the name? Which one did they use?
Hypericum Perforatum - St John's Wort. Has been used to help with depression but studies show no improvements with severe cases.
Impatins Glandulifera Flos - Himalayan Balsam. Diuretic.
Ornithogalum Umvellatum - Sleepydick. Poisonous plant known to harm grazing livestock.
Passiflora Incarnata - passion flower.
Prunus Cerasifera Flos - Purple leaf plum or cherry plum
Rhus - Poison Oak
Toxicodendron - Poison Ivy
Veratrum Album - Hellebore. Poisoning uncommon, but has several alkaloids that could cause accumulative liver damage.

I do not know what ppm they use for each dose. But quite a few of these things build up slowly in the body over time, causing illness and death. It may take years. I would be very interested in seeing long-term studies on this product. I will not be using it."


"I do not know what ppm they use for each dose." Aye, there's the rub.

And Sleepydick is funny as shit. Big Grin

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