Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
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16-03-2016, 01:11 PM
RE: Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
(16-03-2016 12:47 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 12:30 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  The point and distinction of a phobia is generally the notion of the fear being IRRATIONAL. Not "extreme" it's a matter of irrationality for the basis.

Because this protecting oneself or fear of it threatening to something else doesn't have any rational basis for it.. what would cause that step; why would there be a threat attached.. there doesn't seem to be a rational means for these bits. So yes they would fit under the irrational fear notion of a homophobic response.
Google:
The Defintion says:
"
noun
an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something."

If you have a different meaning to the word specific only to irrationality then I would like to point out this is not the same meaning I was referring to. We would not be arguing the same topic & I would then have no objections to the word you are arguing against.

My fear is not extreme thus I do not consider it a phobia based on extremism.
Maybe you are right that it is irrational, but how so? Is it only after you know the details of a certain situation you may be able to properly rationalize it?
To state that any and all fear of homosexuality is irrational doesn't seem to be an arguably objective stance.

Therefore I think you cannot label a person as homophobic simply because they have a fear of homosexuality.
It is only a phobia if it is either extreme or irrational, which is only dependent on the situation.

Irrational to me would be if there is absolutely no reason to believe there is reason to fear something based on emperical evidence (sensual perception) in the given situation.
The given situation has a gay guy calling you dear, honey, sweetie repeatedly without any indication that he was gay. Upon further investigation you find out he is gay and thus request that they stop calling you those names regardless of the context. Is this not rational? Or do you have another meaning of the word rational that I am. Of seeing?

Any and all scenarios isn't how you seemed to judge grounds before in this point. If that's how you want to view it now, Then everything is irrational at that point. Which one could argue if that was the open source.

If you only want to talk in it in a black/white the scenario to ABSOLUTE. Go ahead, I won't though because that's a view that isn't needed to be upheld in actual discussion.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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16-03-2016, 01:26 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 01:37 PM by Agnostic Shane.)
RE: Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
(16-03-2016 01:11 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 12:47 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  Google:
The Defintion says:
"
noun
an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something."

If you have a different meaning to the word specific only to irrationality then I would like to point out this is not the same meaning I was referring to. We would not be arguing the same topic & I would then have no objections to the word you are arguing against.

My fear is not extreme thus I do not consider it a phobia based on extremism.
Maybe you are right that it is irrational, but how so? Is it only after you know the details of a certain situation you may be able to properly rationalize it?
To state that any and all fear of homosexuality is irrational doesn't seem to be an arguably objective stance.

Therefore I think you cannot label a person as homophobic simply because they have a fear of homosexuality.
It is only a phobia if it is either extreme or irrational, which is only dependent on the situation.

Irrational to me would be if there is absolutely no reason to believe there is reason to fear something based on emperical evidence (sensual perception) in the given situation.
The given situation has a gay guy calling you dear, honey, sweetie repeatedly without any indication that he was gay. Upon further investigation you find out he is gay and thus request that they stop calling you those names regardless of the context. Is this not rational? Or do you have another meaning of the word rational that I am. Of seeing?

Any and all scenarios isn't how you seemed to judge grounds before in this point. If that's how you want to view it now, Then everything is irrational at that point. Which one could argue if that was the open source.

If you only want to talk in it in a black/white the scenario to ABSOLUTE. Go ahead, I won't though because that's a view that isn't needed to be upheld in actual discussion.
Not sure if what you just said is related to the topic.
For now I am only concerned with the label homophobic and it's negative connotations.
My opinion is that it is quite possible for someone to be cautious of homosexuals and not be a homophobic since homophobia deals with extreme and irrational cases of fear relating to homosexuals.

I think it may be wrong to label someone as homophobic just because they show some form of caution when directly involved in conversation or otherwise with a homosexual individual.
What do you think?

I think you misunderstand Aspergers. Black & White?
They don't label everything on either extreme ends of the spectrum. That isn't what Aspergers is about. They just take spend a lot more focus than "normal" people to determine which end of the spectrum things should go on.

When you label me as something I am not exactly sure if it is negative, neutral or good, although I have my suspicion. Most times I have to ask what you mean by that to figure out if it is negative or just mildly negative, etc.

The term Homophobic seemed to fall on an extreme end of the spectrum of fear in the way it was used to describe me, but upon further investigation it would seem that it isn't that for down the spectrum but bordering on overly cautious I think.
It's still not quite clear to me, even now so I just have to use public opinion to determine the general understanding. It does not mean you are going to be right but at least I will have a better idea of how to calibrate such expressions the next time they are used, in what context & how far along the spectrum it lies as far as public opinion is concerned.
It's not an easy thing trying to understand social concepts in the same manner everyone else does but I am up for the challenge.
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16-03-2016, 01:31 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 02:21 PM by carol.)
RE: Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
extra post
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16-03-2016, 01:41 PM
RE: Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
(16-03-2016 01:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 01:11 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Any and all scenarios isn't how you seemed to judge grounds before in this point. If that's how you want to view it now, Then everything is irrational at that point. Which one could argue if that was the open source.

If you only want to talk in it in a black/white the scenario to ABSOLUTE. Go ahead, I won't though because that's a view that isn't needed to be upheld in actual discussion.
Not sure if what you just said is related to the topic.
For now I am only concerned with the label homophobic and it's negative connotations.
My opinion is that it is quite possible for someone to be cautious of homosexuals and not be a homophobic since homophobia deals with extreme and irrational cases of fear relating to homosexuals.

I think it may be wrong to label someone as homophobic just because they show some form of caution when directly involved in conversation or otherwise with a homosexual individual.
What do you think?

I think you misunderstand Aspergers. Black & White?
They don't label everything on either extreme ends of the spectrum. That isn't what Aspergers is about. They just take spend a lot more focus than "normal" people to determine which end of the spectrum things should go on.

When you label me as something I am not exactly sure if it is negative, neutral or good, although I have my suspicion. Most times I have to ask what you mean by that to figure out if it is negative or just mildly negative, etc.

The term Homophobic seemed to fall on an extreme end of the spectrum of fear in the way it was used to describe me, but upon further investigation it would seem that it isn't that for down the spectrum but bordering on overly cautious I think.
It's still not quite clear to me, even now so I just have to use public opinion to determine the general understanding. It does not mean you are going to be right but at least I will have a better idea of how to calibrate such expressions the next time they are used, in what context & how far along the spectrum it lies.
It's not an easy thing trying to understand social concepts in the same manner everyone else does but I am up for the challenge.

I think you have way too much attachment to labels having value. they're meaningless distinctions. It's not something of reality or form other than what people attach to it. I said that to in you past when you had threads basically demanding that people help you find a "label" to describe yourself.

...you accused me of not talking about the topic but what is this about Aspergers? How is this joining in as for not talking about the topic?

To the point of this that I would focus on, I don't know what being "cautious" still is because all your labeling and descriptions of it still aren't anything clearly designated. Telling someone to stop calling one sweetie because one doesn't like it and is "cautious" of it... cautious of what? what is being cautious?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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16-03-2016, 02:10 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 02:13 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
Those words are sarcastic, patronizing, insulting.
Nothing more.

For some VERY strange reason, some (many) straight men (like) to think they merit being the object of a gay person's affections/interest.

For about 99.999999 % of them, they have NOTHING to worry about.
You're not in the 0.000001.
Get over it.
Thumbsup

(You really need to get out more).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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16-03-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
(16-03-2016 01:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  
(16-03-2016 01:11 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Any and all scenarios isn't how you seemed to judge grounds before in this point. If that's how you want to view it now, Then everything is irrational at that point. Which one could argue if that was the open source.

If you only want to talk in it in a black/white the scenario to ABSOLUTE. Go ahead, I won't though because that's a view that isn't needed to be upheld in actual discussion.
Not sure if what you just said is related to the topic.
For now I am only concerned with the label homophobic and it's negative connotations.
My opinion is that it is quite possible for someone to be cautious of homosexuals and not be a homophobic since homophobia deals with extreme and irrational cases of fear relating to homosexuals.

I think it may be wrong to label someone as homophobic just because they show some form of caution when directly involved in conversation or otherwise with a homosexual individual.
What do you think?

I think you misunderstand Aspergers. Black & White?
They don't label everything on either extreme ends of the spectrum. That isn't what Aspergers is about. They just take spend a lot more focus than "normal" people to determine which end of the spectrum things should go on.

When you label me as something I am not exactly sure if it is negative, neutral or good, although I have my suspicion. Most times I have to ask what you mean by that to figure out if it is negative or just mildly negative, etc.

The term Homophobic seemed to fall on an extreme end of the spectrum of fear in the way it was used to describe me, but upon further investigation it would seem that it isn't that for down the spectrum but bordering on overly cautious I think.
It's still not quite clear to me, even now so I just have to use public opinion to determine the general understanding. It does not mean you are going to be right but at least I will have a better idea of how to calibrate such expressions the next time they are used, in what context & how far along the spectrum it lies as far as public opinion is concerned.
It's not an easy thing trying to understand social concepts in the same manner everyone else does but I am up for the challenge.

There is no such word as homo-cautious. So no matter what we say, you won't get a new label out of it.

You should have put the question like this:

"There is a gay guy who casually calls me honey and sweetheart and snookums (or whatever it was). It makes me uncomfortable. What's the best way to tell him?"

You would have gotten a different set of answers I think.

Now, the question centers around why it makes you uncomfortable. Do you want it to center around how to communicate it to him without being insulting? Or, what do you hope to get out of this conversation?

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16-03-2016, 02:19 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2016 02:22 PM by Deesse23.)
RE: Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
Quote:an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to something

What can a gay person threaten you with, by sitting (my guess now) thousands of miles away at his keyboard?
Nothing!
Your fear is thus irrational.
You are homophobic.
Next.

Oh, and by rewording your condition to "homo-cautious" you are just intellectually dishonest with yourself. You wont be able to deal with your phobia as long as you dont admit to it in the first place.
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16-03-2016, 02:33 PM
RE: Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
(16-03-2016 01:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  It's not an easy thing trying to understand social concepts in the same manner everyone else does but I am up for the challenge.

This is why I want to learn about you, and talk to you. You are willing to try although it is difficult.
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16-03-2016, 02:50 PM
RE: Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
(16-03-2016 01:26 PM)Agnostic Shane Wrote:  For now I am only concerned with the label homophobic and it's negative connotations.
My opinion is that it is quite possible for someone to be cautious of homosexuals and not be a homophobic since homophobia deals with extreme and irrational cases of fear relating to homosexuals.

I think it may be wrong to label someone as homophobic just because they show some form of caution when directly involved in conversation or otherwise with a homosexual individual.

I gave you a definition of the term "homophobia", which you ignored.
Homophobia, despite its name, is not a phobia, scientifically speaking. Stop calling it that.

I don't care what you are afraid of or what your phobias are, if you treat people differently based on whether they are straight or not makes you homophobic and no, that does not mean you are afraid of them.

And you still haven't explained, what is there to fear about homosexuals and why should you be cautious?

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16-03-2016, 02:53 PM
RE: Homophobic or Homo-Cautious
(16-03-2016 10:57 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  I never got homophobia. Some girls like eating pussy, what is scary about that? Afraid they are better at it than you are? And what about gay men? A man likes other dudes. What are you afraid they will pass on the gay? Newsflash, you can't catch gay.

You didn't need to say you can't catch the gay. Of course you can't catch gay. Haven't you heard that it's a lifestyle choice?

What do you mean Life is short. It's the longest thing you're going to do.
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