Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
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24-04-2015, 09:07 AM
Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
What are some good resources that demonstrate that homosexuality is often due to genetics, against religious fundamentalists who say it's always just a choice and just "sin"? I'm interested in some resources that also address like the 1950s era claims/misnomers regarding homosexuality (like that it's just because some guy didn't have a dad, etc). For instance, I recently came across a good youtube video on the topic called "Get Educated About Homosexuality."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQSx3OCrXQ

I'm hoping to learn more about this issue to be a better proponent of supporting marriage equality, since I still have a lot of misunderstandings and baggage to shed from my fairly recent deconversion from fundamentalist Christianity. Thank you!
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24-04-2015, 09:47 AM
RE: Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
Honestly, I prefer the bigots to keep thinking it's a choice, rather than having them trying to create a "cure".

This one was interesting though.
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/...idence.htm

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24-04-2015, 10:47 AM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2015 11:23 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
Well, complex behaviors have environmental as well as genetic causes, and I don't think homosexuality is any different. I don't doubt that it has a genetic component, but it's important to remember that especially in the case of complex human behavior, the results are usually a combination of genes and environment; "nature vs nurture" is almost certainly an oversimplified view, an excluded-middle.

Fetal development has a role to play in the person's sexual and gender identity, according to this study. The same study points out:

Quote:[...] a genome-wide QTL screen for male homosexuality (Mustanski et al. 2005) found three ‘nominally significant linkage peaks’, indicating three autosomal genes that may influence male sexual orientation, as well as limited support for the previously reported X-linked QTL (Xq28). These initial results are only preliminary and require confirmation from additional genetic studies.

This study documents physiological differences in brain structures in homosexual people compared to heterosexuals., but the study is unclear whether those differences arise in the fetal or neonatal periods of development.

This list of sources may be valuable to you as well.

The studies in the 1990s regarding the genetics of homosexuality aren't very definitive in that they have not located a "gay gene" (or gene cluster) with replicable success. They have isolated three genetic loci which seem to be connected with male homosexuality, but that too is not definitive.
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24-04-2015, 10:56 AM
RE: Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
Twin studies suggest that although genetics plays a role it is certainly not the single deciding factor. I believe that as-yet-unknown epigenetics are thought to be the next major player. Life experience may have further impacts.

For comparison, twin studies suggest that although genetics plays a role it is certainly not the single deciding factor in left-handedness. As-yet-unknown epigenetics are thought to be the next major player.

But no, it's not a choice... at least for most people. If it is a choice for someone then the proper label for that person is likely bisexual rather than homosexual.

Wikipedia's writeup may be worth a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and...rientation

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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14-05-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
(24-04-2015 09:07 AM)Learner Wrote:  What are some good resources that demonstrate that homosexuality is often due to genetics, against religious fundamentalists who say it's always just a choice and just "sin"? I'm interested in some resources that also address like the 1950s era claims/misnomers regarding homosexuality (like that it's just because some guy didn't have a dad, etc). For instance, I recently came across a good youtube video on the topic called "Get Educated About Homosexuality."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQSx3OCrXQ

I'm hoping to learn more about this issue to be a better proponent of supporting marriage equality, since I still have a lot of misunderstandings and baggage to shed from my fairly recent deconversion from fundamentalist Christianity. Thank you!

Just for you, I went through this review, published in 2014 in advanced genetics Wink

http://www.sciencedirect.com.ezlibproxy1...2223000085

I will summarize and share referenced articles for your ease of accessibility:


Family and twin Studies:
Homosexuality tends to cluster in family lines. Homosexual men and women tend to have more homosexuals in their families (1, 2, 3).

Also, the concordance rate for monozygotic twins is higher than for dizygotic twins (1, 2, 3)

Homosexuality appears to be maternally loaded (e.g. gay men had more gay relatives on the maternal side). In 1993, a gene locus (Xq28) on the X chromosome was identified, whose sharing was significantly elevated among gay brothers, suggesting a role in the determination of sexuality (1, 2, 3, 4).

Later, other genetic loci were identified, which were not located on the X chromosome (1).

Epigenetics:
Epigenetics means that environmental effects are translated into genetic modifications in the early development of the fetus.

The fraternal birth order effect is the most indicative phenomenon. Each son increases the odds of homosexuality in the next son by 33% relative to the baseline population rate (1, 2, 3). One hypothesis that has yet to be tested is that a male pregnancy triggers male-specific antigens in the mother, and each successive male child increases this immune response

The gene locus 10q26 is linked to male sexual orientation when there is an excess sharing of maternal alleles. This suggests an epigenetic cause and involvement of genomic imprinting (1, 2).

A theoretical paper suggests a model on how epigenetic modifications can influence sexuality (1):
1) Sex specific epigenetic marks are often erased during the formation of gametes. If this erasure fails, however, it can be inherited and affect the development of traits that involve sexuality.
2) Sex-specific epigenetic marks with XX fetuses are less sensitive that XY fetuses towards fetal androgen signalling.
3) "Feminizing" epigenetic marks will make XY fetuses less sensitive to fetal androgen signaling and more likely to develop as homosexual men.

Note that this theoretical paper is under discussion.

Molecular mechanisms:
High levels of prenatal hormone exposure can lead to "organizational" effects, because they appear to organize affected tissues and behaviors to develop in a particular way: differentiation along sex-specific lines, late on-set effects, and sensitivity during a small developmental period (perinatal period) (1, 2,3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)

Prenatal exposure to high testosterone levels can also affect brain sexual differentiation by various biomolecular means (1, 2,3, 4, 5, 6, 7).

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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14-05-2015, 10:49 AM
RE: Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
It's a sidetrack.

Choice, or genetic -- it's irrelevant.

Period.

Don't let them pretend it makes a shit's bit of difference.

It doesn't.

By genetics or by choice -- someone's sexual preferences should only matter to that person, and the person(s) they're having sex with.

Anything else - is just somebody getting into somebody else's business - and should be treated as the invasion that it is.

..

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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14-05-2015, 11:31 AM (This post was last modified: 14-05-2015 11:37 AM by Tomasia.)
RE: Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
(24-04-2015 09:07 AM)Learner Wrote:  What are some good resources that demonstrate that homosexuality is often due to genetics, against religious fundamentalists who say it's always just a choice and just "sin"? I'm interested in some resources that also address like the 1950s era claims/misnomers regarding homosexuality (like that it's just because some guy didn't have a dad, etc). For instance, I recently came across a good youtube video on the topic called "Get Educated About Homosexuality."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQSx3OCrXQ

I'm hoping to learn more about this issue to be a better proponent of supporting marriage equality, since I still have a lot of misunderstandings and baggage to shed from my fairly recent deconversion from fundamentalist Christianity. Thank you!

"Homosexuality is only partly genetic with sexuality mostly based on environmental and social factors, scientists believe. A study found that, while gay men shared similar genetic make-up, it only accounted for 40 per cent of the chance of a man being homosexual."...

"Interestingly no similar genes have been discovered which influence female homosexuality."...

"“We don’t think genetics is the whole story. It’s not. We have a gene that contributes to homosexuality but you could say it is linked to heterosexuality. It is the variation.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/...finds.html

What I do wonder about is what are the supposed environmental and social factors here? What aspects of nurture rather than nature contribute to homosexuality? I never really understand that part. But I guess the same question could be posed to heterosexuality as well. What aspects of my attraction to woman are biological, and what aspects are product of my environment? I don't really know the answer to that either. But I think it's an interesting question.
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14-05-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
(14-05-2015 11:31 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(24-04-2015 09:07 AM)Learner Wrote:  What are some good resources that demonstrate that homosexuality is often due to genetics, against religious fundamentalists who say it's always just a choice and just "sin"? I'm interested in some resources that also address like the 1950s era claims/misnomers regarding homosexuality (like that it's just because some guy didn't have a dad, etc). For instance, I recently came across a good youtube video on the topic called "Get Educated About Homosexuality."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSQSx3OCrXQ

I'm hoping to learn more about this issue to be a better proponent of supporting marriage equality, since I still have a lot of misunderstandings and baggage to shed from my fairly recent deconversion from fundamentalist Christianity. Thank you!

"Homosexuality is only partly genetic with sexuality mostly based on environmental and social factors, scientists believe. A study found that, while gay men shared similar genetic make-up, it only accounted for 40 per cent of the chance of a man being homosexual."...

"Interestingly no similar genes have been discovered which influence female homosexuality."...

"“We don’t think genetics is the whole story. It’s not. We have a gene that contributes to homosexuality but you could say it is linked to heterosexuality. It is the variation.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/...finds.html

What I do wonder about is what are the supposed environmental and social factors here? What aspects of nurture rather than nature contribute to homosexuality? I never really understand that part. But I guess the same question could be posed to heterosexuality as well. What aspects of my attraction to woman are biological, and what aspects are product of my environment? I don't really know the answer to that either. But I think it's an interesting question.

The answers to your questions are only two comments away. In fact, scroll up a little, and you will find that I shared around 20 scientific references on the whole thing...

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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14-05-2015, 12:40 PM
RE: Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
(14-05-2015 11:53 AM)Youkay Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 11:31 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  "Homosexuality is only partly genetic with sexuality mostly based on environmental and social factors, scientists believe. A study found that, while gay men shared similar genetic make-up, it only accounted for 40 per cent of the chance of a man being homosexual."...

"Interestingly no similar genes have been discovered which influence female homosexuality."...

"“We don’t think genetics is the whole story. It’s not. We have a gene that contributes to homosexuality but you could say it is linked to heterosexuality. It is the variation.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/...finds.html

What I do wonder about is what are the supposed environmental and social factors here? What aspects of nurture rather than nature contribute to homosexuality? I never really understand that part. But I guess the same question could be posed to heterosexuality as well. What aspects of my attraction to woman are biological, and what aspects are product of my environment? I don't really know the answer to that either. But I think it's an interesting question.

The answers to your questions are only two comments away. In fact, scroll up a little, and you will find that I shared around 20 scientific references on the whole thing...

From what I gather from your links, they seem to suggest that all these environmental factors take place at the level of the womb?
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14-05-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: Homosexuality is (often) due to genetics: please share evidence and resources
(14-05-2015 12:40 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(14-05-2015 11:53 AM)Youkay Wrote:  The answers to your questions are only two comments away. In fact, scroll up a little, and you will find that I shared around 20 scientific references on the whole thing...

From what I gather from your links, they seem to suggest that all these environmental factors take place at the level of the womb?

That's exactly right. The process is not completely understood yet. It's thought to be in part, the result of circulating hormone levels in the mother at certain times in the pregnancy.

There was not even such a concept as "sexual orientation" until the late 19th Century. If the concept was unknown in the history of human ideas until Psychology developed as a science, then obviously the Bible not only did not, but could not, have anything to say about the matter.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid117446
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid116732

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