Hope
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20-04-2017, 02:10 PM
RE: Hope
(20-04-2017 11:03 AM)qpmomma Wrote:  I told him "I do have hope. I look around and see all the amazing things science has accomplished. There are diseases my daughter will never get thanks to humans. Humans did that, not a god. I look to the future with hope for mankind because there are great humans in the world trying to make things better. I no longer look at the world and think 'why did god let this happen?' I now look at the world and think 'look how humans are trying to cure cancer and eradicate diseases.'"

Right or wrong, that was my answer in the spur of the moment lol.

I never understood in this day and age, how people can still have faith in mankind, at least the Christian fantasy has an abysmal attitude toward humanity in generally, a fact lived out in the age of Trump, the flock of youth that serves as the base of Marine Le Pen, the degree of divisiveness and petty resentments that have overtaken us. While the future may not result in an apocalypse, it's likely to be disappointing. Sure we might see us living a bit longer, but also more disgruntled.

I used to have such a dewey-eyed hope in humanity when I was in my early 20s, it just evaporated as I got older, and saw humanity for what it is, a fickle creature.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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20-04-2017, 03:19 PM
RE: Hope
(20-04-2017 01:26 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(20-04-2017 01:08 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Never realized there was a term for that. But no kidding, the thing that scares me the most is just the concept of eternity. I've broken down crying before, more than once, while trying to conceptualize it. I can remember curling in a ball in 5th grade or so in bed and just laying awake all night due to it.

Hug

I only found out there was a name for this very recently. And was stunned, really, because it was *exactly* as you describe it. I would lie awake in bed, terrified beyond what words can describe at the mere thought of going on forever, and ever, and ever, with no end in sight.

Wanna know how I kicked it? Tongue

(But sorry you are going through this. It's the most terrible thing I've ever experienced!)

Oh wow, that first line of the story just resonates so much, as does, "Now I’m in my 30s, and the thought of eternity still freaks me out. It usually hits at night when I’m trying to sleep. " And the end with just avoiding it altogether if possible, yep.

So sorry you've lain there in bed and experienced that existential terror too Hug It's...mind breaking, really, the thought that all we will ever experience in this life is nothing but a blip. That things will just keep going...that you could try to count to infinity, and though never reach it, would still keep trying to forever. (Total honesty moment that I hope no one makes a snide comment about? I literally had to walk away from my computer while typing that because I began to feel the terror and anxiety building up while considering it in depth mentally.) In a way, the idea of Heaven terrifies me almost as much as that of Hell, just because...eternity.

I imagine it involved becoming an atheist, forgoing the belief in the afterlife?

(Seriously, I'm so sorry you've had it too. Would agree about it being probably the most terrifying thing in my own life as well.)

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20-04-2017, 04:14 PM
RE: Hope
(20-04-2017 03:19 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Oh wow, that first line of the story just resonates so much, as does, "Now I’m in my 30s, and the thought of eternity still freaks me out. It usually hits at night when I’m trying to sleep. " And the end with just avoiding it altogether if possible, yep.

Yeah, I tried avoiding it, too, but it sneaked up on me at night. And I kept trying myself that I would be changed, body *and* mind so maybe I won't find it terrifying then. Can't say it helped much...

Quote: It's...mind breaking, really, the thought that all we will ever experience in this life is nothing but a blip. That things will just keep going...that you could try to count to infinity, and though never reach it, would still keep trying to forever

Breaking is right! Just the thought of being stretched on the rack of eternity, until I break. Only, there is no "until" in eternity and *this* is the problem.

God, I'm not helping, am I? Undecided

Quote:(Total honesty moment that I hope no one makes a snide comment about? I literally had to walk away from my computer while typing that because I began to feel the terror and anxiety building up while considering it in depth mentally.) In a way, the idea of Heaven terrifies me almost as much as that of Hell, just because...eternity.


This! (I never could quite believe in something as utterly repugnant as Hell, so I wasn't really afraid of it)

Quote:I imagine it involved becoming an atheist, forgoing the belief in the afterlife?

Indeedy Yes

Honestly, I have no advice (not that you asked for it). I know of only one surefire cure and it worked *miracles* (get it? Rolleyes ) for me...

Good luck... I guess...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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20-04-2017, 04:38 PM
RE: Hope
Sorry for diverting your happy thread into some existential moroseness qpmomma! Will try to stop doing it.

(20-04-2017 04:14 PM)Vera Wrote:  Yeah, I tried avoiding it, too, but it sneaked up on me at night. And I kept trying myself that I would be changed, body *and* mind so maybe I won't find it terrifying then. Can't say it helped much...

It really doesn't, heh.

Quote:
Breaking is right! Just the thought of being stretched on the rack of eternity, until I break. Only, there is no "until" in eternity and *this* is the problem.

God, I'm not helping, am I? Undecided

Knowing I'm not the only one who has struggled with it is helping. But you definitely just summed it up really well.

Quote:

This! (I never could quite believe in something as utterly repugnant as Hell, so I wasn't really afraid of it)


Still afraid of it here (albeit I struggle with exactly what you just said), but...just both seem scary, due to the eternity thing.

Quote:
Indeedy Yes

Honestly, I have no advice (not that you asked for it). I know of only one surefire cure and it worked *miracles* (get it? Rolleyes ) for me...

Good luck... I guess...

Somehow that seemed like the answer. Angel And don't get me wrong, I can see how it could help, the thought of just...oblivion. Nothingness is much easier to deal with as a thought, at least to me. (Get it Laugh out load Though would have taken advice if offered. Well, beyond 'become an atheist' I guess.) And thanks for the sort of good luck wish there!

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20-04-2017, 11:04 PM
RE: Hope
"No hope in your future"?

I think that translates to, "No wishful thinking about an afterlife".

People so often project their own discomfort onto others.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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21-04-2017, 12:29 AM
RE: Hope
(20-04-2017 12:24 PM)Vera Wrote:  Or even fucking hordes of virgins *in* a lake of fire. Drinking Beverage

Ooooh, I like where this is going. Consider Tell me more.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-04-2017, 02:43 AM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2017 03:02 AM by OakTree500.)
RE: Hope
Well done qpmomma!

Perfect answer to be honest. It's mind bending how somebody can essentially talk like that, when they know nothing except what is in there own little bubble, in this case "god". Narrow minded fool is what he is.

Keep going on your atheist adventure, and you'll soon meet many people who are worth your time.

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21-04-2017, 05:40 AM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2017 06:01 AM by Vera.)
RE: Hope
(21-04-2017 12:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  Ooooh, I like where this is going. Tell me more.

Buy my latest book, Sex in the Untime of a Choleric Sky-Monster (or Fifty Gazillian Shades of Wrong) to find out. Only $9.89 plus shipping.

(Movie version might be renamed to Emmanuel in Hell and the soundtrack will include such favourite standards as Oh Come, Oh Come, Emmanuel (O Come, Thou Rod of Jesse), Oh Come, All Ye Unfaithful and Ding Dong Gloomily on Low)

Drinking Beverage

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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21-04-2017, 05:14 PM
RE: Hope
(20-04-2017 11:03 AM)qpmomma Wrote:  "I feel sorry for you because there is no hope in your future."

I'm sure your family member meant this with the best of intentions as far as his/her personal religious beliefs go, but it's invariably such a bigoted, hypocritical, patronising sentiment to express—particularly as you've told them your honest decision about atheism. And just as importantly, you haven't denigrated their beliefs, or said you feel "sorry" for them.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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