"Hope is not the same as optimism. And faith does not require imaginary friends."
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02-05-2017, 07:58 AM
"Hope is not the same as optimism. And faith does not require imaginary friends."
Saw a good article from the "Ethics" columnist (yes, there is such a thing) in the Toronto Star recently and I thought I'd share it here.

I’ve given up hope on public discourse. What should I do?

From the article:
Quote:...hope is not a feeling; it’s a decision. Acknowledging the world’s ugliness, hope chooses to move intentionally towards the beautiful and the good, and to help others do so. Optimism, like naïve liberalism, believes the world will just, somehow, get better. Hope knows that the world is very, very sick, and makes the active decision to work, long and hard, despite the odds, towards reconciliation and healing...

Hope requires neither a cheery outlook nor imaginary friends. It requires only the courage to make ethical decisions in an unethical time — the courage to be kind, to be generous, to be faithful, to be loving.
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02-05-2017, 08:32 AM
RE: "Hope is not the same as optimism. And faith does not require imaginary friends."
(02-05-2017 07:58 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Saw a good article from the "Ethics" columnist (yes, there is such a thing) in the Toronto Star recently and I thought I'd share it here.

I’ve given up hope on public discourse. What should I do?

From the article:
Quote:...hope is not a feeling; it’s a decision. Acknowledging the world’s ugliness, hope chooses to move intentionally towards the beautiful and the good, and to help others do so. Optimism, like naïve liberalism, believes the world will just, somehow, get better. Hope knows that the world is very, very sick, and makes the active decision to work, long and hard, despite the odds, towards reconciliation and healing...

Hope requires neither a cheery outlook nor imaginary friends. It requires only the courage to make ethical decisions in an unethical time — the courage to be kind, to be generous, to be faithful, to be loving.

What a steamy pile of bullshit attempt to demonize liberals. FUCK OFF.

"naive liberalism"? What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

Where the hell did you get this quote from, Atlas Shit?

I am a liberal, I do accept that life has ugly things in it. No, prayer doesn't do shit. But, our nation is not the property of billionaires either. There is a reason for voting in the west. There is a reason for political pluralism in the west. There is a reason there are checks and balances on power in the west. One class DOES NOT get to dictate all the laws we live under.

This quote sounds like bullshit libertarian crap. "fuck you I got mine" is not an economic plan. Nor does "liberal" mean anti private sector. Nor does "liberal" mean we want to become Stalin's Russia or Castro's Cuba.

Wanting livable wages and having pay meet the cost of living, is not being "naive". The more you increase the cost of living gap ratio between the top and bottom, the less buying power workers have, the more that hurts the profits of the business. WORKERS create the demand, not the business owner.

Naive is what assholes like Trump are. Naive are what oil companies are. Selfish morons who only think about short term gain at the cost of damaging our planet long term.

Pragmatism, is when you realize something is not working and you stop clinging to old shit. Just like we no longer use rotary phones. Just like car companies once railed against Nader's complaints of how unsafe their products were, government investment on safety goals long term lead the car companies to make seat belts standard then the invention of the air bag. NOW those same car companies market those safety features.

HOW DARE YOU falsely use the word "liberal" as if we are a separate species. Yes I am liberal, no I am not naive.

That writer is full of shit. If you think that all liberals are the same, then you are full of shit too. How's that for a dose of reality for you?

Now, if I misunderstood you, here is your opportunity to explain why you'd agree with the bullshit "naive liberalism". Those two words alone discredit the author.

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02-05-2017, 08:38 AM
RE: "Hope is not the same as optimism. And faith does not require imaginary friends."
How on earth did you get this amount of hate and rage from such a simple article?!

Methinks it's not the article's problem.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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02-05-2017, 08:56 AM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2017 09:47 AM by Grasshopper.)
RE: "Hope is not the same as optimism. And faith does not require imaginary friends."
(02-05-2017 08:32 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(02-05-2017 07:58 AM)Heath_Tierney Wrote:  Saw a good article from the "Ethics" columnist (yes, there is such a thing) in the Toronto Star recently and I thought I'd share it here.

I’ve given up hope on public discourse. What should I do?

From the article:

What a steamy pile of bullshit attempt to demonize liberals. FUCK OFF.

"naive liberalism"? What the fuck is that supposed to mean?

Where the hell did you get this quote from, Atlas Shit?

I am a liberal, I do accept that life has ugly things in it. No, prayer doesn't do shit. But, our nation is not the property of billionaires either. There is a reason for voting in the west. There is a reason for political pluralism in the west. There is a reason there are checks and balances on power in the west. One class DOES NOT get to dictate all the laws we live under.

This quote sounds like bullshit libertarian crap. "fuck you I got mine" is not an economic plan. Nor does "liberal" mean anti private sector. Nor does "liberal" mean we want to become Stalin's Russia or Castro's Cuba.

Wanting livable wages and having pay meet the cost of living, is not being "naive". The more you increase the cost of living gap ratio between the top and bottom, the less buying power workers have, the more that hurts the profits of the business. WORKERS create the demand, not the business owner.

Naive is what assholes like Trump are. Naive are what oil companies are. Selfish morons who only think about short term gain at the cost of damaging our planet long term.

Pragmatism, is when you realize something is not working and you stop clinging to old shit. Just like we no longer use rotary phones. Just like car companies once railed against Nader's complaints of how unsafe their products were, government investment on safety goals long term lead the car companies to make seat belts standard then the invention of the air bag. NOW those same car companies market those safety features.

HOW DARE YOU falsely use the word "liberal" as if we are a separate species. Yes I am liberal, no I am not naive.

That writer is full of shit. If you think that all liberals are the same, then you are full of shit too. How's that for a dose of reality for you?

Now, if I misunderstood you, here is your opportunity to explain why you'd agree with the bullshit "naive liberalism". Those two words alone discredit the author.

?????

Did you even bother to read the article, or did you just see the two words "naive liberalism" and reflexively blow your stack? Hint: he never says or implies that all liberals are the same. In fact, most of the illustrations he gives of how you would go about putting hope into action are the exact kinds of things that liberals do. I would guess that the author of the editorial is a liberal himself. A "naive liberal" would be one who thinks that liberal policies and agendas will automatically make a perfect world. Life ain't that simple. There's a reason why he qualified "liberal" with "naive". He's talking about a subset of liberals, not all of them.

By the way -- I consider myself a liberal, and I wasn't the least bit offended by the article. Take a Xanax and chill.
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02-05-2017, 09:13 AM
RE: "Hope is not the same as optimism. And faith does not require imaginary friends."
(02-05-2017 08:38 AM)Vera Wrote:  How on earth did you get this amount of hate and rage from such a simple article?!

Methinks it's not the article's problem.

Spare me the fake indignation. The asshole who wrote the article use the words "naive liberalism", not me. That dickhead has the right to free speech sure, and I also have the right as a liberal, to call bullshit bullshit.

"Hate" in what context? Hate as in "I want them dead", nope.

If you are an atheist, do you like it when people say "You like Stalin"
If you are an atheist, do you like it when people say, "You're going to burn in hell".

Yea, being a liberal it pisses me off when people say condescending bullshit like "naive liberalism". Act like a snotty patronizing jackass, I am going to call you one.

Maybe that asshole should have thought about what he said before printing it.

Yes I hate bullshit. No, I will not apologize for calling bullshit bullshit.

I cussed him out. If you think that is the worst thing in the world, go move to Cuba and try to complain about their government and or media, then complain about my bluntness here.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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02-05-2017, 09:18 AM
RE: "Hope is not the same as optimism. And faith does not require imaginary friends."
Frankly, being as liberal as one can get and as anti-gun as it is possible to be without being a raving lunatic, I think your posts are doing a huge disservice to the causes you claim to espouse so warmly.

You have major anger issues and it's ugly to watch.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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02-05-2017, 11:06 AM
RE: "Hope is not the same as optimism. And faith does not require imaginary friends."
Unsure

Wait? "Anti-gun" is a thing in the States now? Consider

Not being from there.. I have no real good perspective on the matter... Unsure
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02-05-2017, 11:13 AM
RE: "Hope is not the same as optimism. And faith does not require imaginary friends."
(02-05-2017 09:13 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  Yea, being a liberal it pisses me off when people say condescending bullshit like "naive liberalism". Act like a snotty patronizing jackass, I am going to call you one.

Did you read the article?

Quote:Optimism, like naïve liberalism, believes the world will just, somehow, get better.

The author is not slamming liberalism across the board. They are criticizing inaction.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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02-05-2017, 11:15 AM
RE: "Hope is not the same as optimism. And faith does not require imaginary friends."
(02-05-2017 11:06 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Unsure

Wait? "Anti-gun" is a thing in the States now? Consider

Not being from there.. I have no real good perspective on the matter... Unsure

Yes, there has been an anti-gun movement for a while now. Generally people take "anti-gun" to mean the you support stricter laws and the ban of certain types of weapons. It's a touchy subject to say the least.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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