How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
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19-05-2014, 08:12 AM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 07:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 07:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is the root of your distress. It's not true - get over it. Drinking Beverage

You have any proof to support this truth claim?

For example, what proof do you have that we are not immortal?

The same proof we have that we are not....

able to sprout wings and fly
able to breath underwater
able jump over tall buildings with a single leap
able to see through walls

You get the picture? Ahhh...why do I bother!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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19-05-2014, 08:12 AM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 07:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 07:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is the root of your distress. It's not true - get over it. Drinking Beverage

You have any proof to support this truth claim?

For example, what proof do you have that we are not immortal?

Facepalm

It's not what evidence do we have that we aren't immortal.

It's what evidence do you have that we are?

All reliable evidence so far collected supports mortality and contradicts immortality. If an extension of us continues to live in some state after biological death, it is up to the proponents of such a position to provide evidence.

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19-05-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
Any amount of pretending doesn't change reality and any problems with reality aren't resolved by running away into a fantasy world. The only way to deal with reality and to make the best of it is to face it head on. Unless you are one of the extremely unfortunate in the world who is born into a life of extreme poverty, extreme violence, or something similar, each person's reality is mostly what they make it. So, if you aren't happy with your life, then decide to make it better and start doing so.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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19-05-2014, 08:39 AM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 07:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 07:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is the root of your distress. It's not true - get over it. Drinking Beverage

You have any proof to support this truth claim?

For example, what proof do you have that we are not immortal?

Crickets Crickets Crickets

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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19-05-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 07:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 07:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is the root of your distress. It's not true - get over it. Drinking Beverage

You have any proof to support this truth claim?

For example, what proof do you have that we are not immortal?

Nope. No proof.

Plenty of evidence, though.

Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια?
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19-05-2014, 09:10 AM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 07:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 07:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is the root of your distress. It's not true - get over it. Drinking Beverage

You have any proof to support this truth claim?

For example, what proof do you have that we are not immortal?

Your reading comprehension really sucks, dude.

His claim is that humans are worthy of something. That is what I state is the source of his distress and that it is not true that we are 'worthy'.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-05-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 07:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 07:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is the root of your distress. It's not true - get over it. Drinking Beverage

You have any proof to support this truth claim?

For example, what proof do you have that we are not immortal?

Spoken like an idiot who has never seen a dead body.

Shoot yourself and find out, moron.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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19-05-2014, 09:38 AM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
Sounds like you want your cake and eat it too.

You can embrace what you know to be false and live a life of falsehood, that you know to be false.

Or you ca embrace the truth of the world as we understand it and happily move on.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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19-05-2014, 09:47 AM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 07:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  For example, what proof do you have that we are not immortal?

There's no proof that anyone is immortal, so it's pretty stupid to give the position that we are any time of serious consideration.

If your reasoning is "well, you still can't prove it's false, so we need to consider it, despite a lack of evidence", then you've opened the door to literally an infinite number of baseless claims. Claims like: Islam, leprechauns, Wicca, and a god named Steve that I just invented.

Utilizing things we can observe and learning from the past gets us things like super computers, longer life spans, and satellites. Utilizing an argument from ignorance gets us... leprechauns? How useful.
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19-05-2014, 10:09 AM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I'm an atheist and even though I'm well aware of the fact that there is no afterlife and that we have to make the best of the life we have, this is how I feel anyway. Even though I'm an atheist, I truly wish I wasn't. I'd rather be the dumbest person on Earth who believes in a God and afterlife than be a smart young man who is logical and doesn't believe. My personality is someone who embraces and is inspired by mystical god-like things (the world of Zelda since it has mystical god-like things, as well as anime such as Bleach, Inuyasha, etc.). I view this world of anime as god-like and superior since it has these concepts of an afterlife and many other awesome superior god-like concepts (which is far superior to this inferior reality).

All diseases, illnesses, the fact that there's no God/no afterlife and that when we die, that's it (even having to "make the best" of the life that we have despite our struggles), these are all inferior concepts of life that are deeply loathed by me. Their only existence serves to hold you back from achieving absolution and perfection and becoming a god (metaphorically speaking). All of life's struggles are pointless and inferior and they, too, serve this exact same purpose. We as human beings are more than worthy of a life in which we are gods, are immortal, have no problems, etc. (a world that is more like that of an anime).

But despite the fact that I cannot have god-like powers of immortality and such, there is one thing in which I can be a superior god. And that would be through my perceptions and attitude. Therefore, since life itself cannot give me these powers, I have chosen to take it upon myself and give myself these "powers" (metaphorically speaking) in the form of a personality which is superior to all things inferior in this world. It is a higher perception of that of an awesome god-like anime applied to my life here (an attitude and perception from a superior reality--not a perception and attitude that this inferior life wishes to make me adhere to its pointless struggles and inferior concepts). I now feel like that of an awesome god-like anime character who is able to embrace all god-like personalities of many anime characters who is superior to these hated inferior concepts of life and that these things no longer dictate what perception and attitude that this inferior life wants me to have. Even though I as a person physically live in an inferior life, my personality on the other hand, lives a superior god-like life in my own head. I have, therefore, given myself a personality that defies all these inferior concepts of life.

So as you can see, my atheism severely clashes with my personality. I realize that logic is the truth and the logical truth would be that since life has no meaning, the fact that we die and go nowhere is neither inferior nor superior. However, despite my sense of logic, who I am as a person says otherwise. Metaphorically speaking, I have the personality of a superior god-like immortal being. But there's only one problem which is that I am living in a life that is the opposite of that (a life that is not perfect, is full of struggles, am not immortal, etc.). If life itself were a person, I would say to it: "GIVE ME MY POWERS BACK!!! I AM A GOD WHOSE PERSONALITY MATCHES AND THRIVES IN THE AWESOME SUPERNATURAL IMMORTAL WORLD OF ANIME, ONLY TO BE BORN INTO THIS INFERIOR WORLD THAT DOES NOT MATCH MY PERSONALITY AND HAS TAKEN THESE GOD-LIKE IMMORTAL POWERS AWAY FROM ME!!!" (again, this is all metaphorically speaking and is an exaggeration of how I feel). So as you can see, I utterly detest atheism despite the fact that I am an atheist and it is utterly inferior to my personality. No, I will not change who I am as a person because the personality I have is the most awesome personality. I will not allow this inferior life to dictate a personality that binds me and adheres to life's struggles and its concept that I am not immortal, etc. This life apparently wants me to change and dictate a personality to me that adheres to its inferior concepts (which would be a personality that no longer has any god-like perceptions in terms of living life like abandoning my god-like perceptions and accepting the fact that I will not live forever. Although I already know this is true, my personality will not be dictated (changed) by it).

Despite the fact that I am an atheist, I would support and uphold religion in order to give people the sense of comfort and superiority that they deserve and not what this inferior life wants. The moral views on religion (such as homosexuality being a sin), these are things I would be against as they are irrational and false and only serve to bring chaos into this world. But as for just the religion itself (there being a God and an afterlife), that itself I would encourage in people. But if you are thinking that knowing the truth (atheism) is somehow better than believing in religion because you think that it is more mature and such and that because of this, people NEED to hear and believe in the truth, then this would be wrong. Positive outlook on life through atheism is neither less or better than positive outlook on life through religion.

Therefore, if someone has a struggle with depression and believing in a religion makes them feel better, then you should never tell this person the truth of atheism. In depression, it is much harder (nearly impossible) to achieve a positive outlook on life through atheism. A depressed person is nearly (if not completely) dependent on the perception that religion offers (hope, comfort, as well as a sense of superiority since depressed people also have a sense of self-loathing and being inferior). So if you tell them the truth of atheism and they believe that, you would have given this person a pointless struggle of even more depression. And even if at the end of this struggle they do manage to achieve a positive perception through atheism, the truth is that this struggle was completely unnecessary because, as I said again, they would have achieved a new perception that is neither inferior nor superior to their previous perception of religion and it would of, therefore, been completely better off if they would have kept their belief in religion.

Or you could have a person like me in which religious belief would be ultimate perfection for my personality (if I believed in religion, this would be the best outlook on life I could ever achieve). Therefore, encouraging religion in these types of people would be needed. But, of course, if they are an atheist to the point where nothing can convince them otherwise, I would instead encourage this "god-like superior-driven attitude" of mine in others in need (providing that the positive outlook on life through atheism does not work for these people. I, of course, being one of these people). Because these types of people deserve this perception (they need to be encouraged that they are the ones who are superior and that their problems are inferior and not the other way around). That it's false that life's problems somehow dictate our lives and dictate what personality we should have.

Me having this attitude may sound negative, but it's not (it makes me feel even more superior and powerful). Saying things to myself such as "If life cannot give me the status of a god which would be absolution, perfection, and immortality, then this life is worthless and inferior to me. I'm the one who is superior and this life is nothing more than a worthless pawn to me (just a means of getting the enjoyment I want). When I die, I can just dispose of this worthless abomination." By being harsh and viewing my problems as inferior (in this case, life being full of problems and no God), this gives me a feeling of more empowerment and superiority. Also, when I am referring to life, I just mean these inferior concepts of life I've been explaining (I do not mean any people or innocent living things).

Edit: Finally, one more thing is that I have chronic depression and what really bothers me is that these god-like powers I seek (the ability to experience full pleasure in life and live forever) may actually exist later on in the future. In other words, through technology, we might find a way to live forever and cure depression. But it would be too late because I would already be dead (and I highly doubt we will find a way through technology to somehow bring people back to life). This, right here, is a complete mockery of my superior god-like driven perception and personality. Depression is the greatest inferior thing you can have in your life (obviously in my case since I view pleasure as the greatest superior thing you can have in life). If I didn't have depression, then maybe I would hardly have any anger issues with this at all. But me having depression is the final straw that has completely given me hate (in this case, positive hate that makes me feel more empowered) towards these issues. Me both having depression and the fact that we might cure depression and live forever in the future both couple together to make the ultimate mockery of my personality. But despite this mockery, I still have the desire to feel empowered and superior anyway. I could have chosen to have your average typical anger that any normal person would have in these situations (a negative type of anger in which you feel inferior and such). But through my overwhelming desire of becoming superior to all things inferior to me, I have instead turned this anger around completely into a positive superior empowering anger that instead makes me feel empowered and superior.

Long post!

My take from it is that you are in a phase of your life where you prefer to escape into the realm of fantasy.

You feel you deserve better than what life has given you so far. So you imagine a world where you get what you feel is due to you...

This is indeed a reason for many to join a religion.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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