How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
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19-05-2014, 02:08 PM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
I think that when we humble atheists learn to deal with the fact that our powers are kind of underrated when it comes to other religions we still take the time to undergo strides and strides of improvement. So I believe that these godlike powers do exist in all of us but I think we need to discover them first.

Here is another quote from another famous atheists:

""Nearly all men can stand on adversity, but if you want to test man's character, give him atheism."

-Abraham Lincoln
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19-05-2014, 03:19 PM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I'm an atheist and even though I'm well aware of the fact that there is no afterlife and that we have to make the best of the life we have

Right there. You're done. This is EXACTLY all you need to know to have a great life.

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Even though I'm an atheist, I truly wish I wasn't. I'd rather be the dumbest person on Earth who believes in a God and afterlife than be a smart young man who is logical and doesn't believe.

That's too bad. Intelligence is never a curse. You seem fairly smart. Embrace your intelligence and accept that dreams and fantasies are fun to toy with, but trying to replace reality with a belief in your dreams/fantasies will only lead to insanity.

Focus on reality and use your intelligence to make your reality better, and save the dreams/fantasies for pure entertainment. Nothing more.

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I realize that logic is the truth and the logical truth would be that since life has no meaning

I wholeheartedly disagree.

I'm sure my life has meaning. I'm raising children who depend on me to guide them and help them become adults. I'm engaged to a wonderful woman and my life is (in part) about making her happy and being happy with her. I embrace my friends, enjoy my life, and make life better for those around me.

That holds a whole world of meaning for me. I don't need metaphysical beginnings or eternal afterlife endings to define or give meaning to my life.

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  the fact that we die and go nowhere is neither inferior nor superior.

Correct.

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Metaphorically speaking, I have the personality of a superior god-like immortal being.

I hate to say it so bluntly, but you might need to reexamine this personality you've created. Living a fantasy life with an artificial imaginary self-perspective will not get you much of anything but frustration, isolation, depression, or worse.

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Despite the fact that I am an atheist, I would support and uphold religion in order to give people the sense of comfort and superiority that they deserve and not what this inferior life wants.

How dreadful.

Religion is like cancer - its only reason to exist is to grow and spread. This isn't only true of religions; it's also true of businesses, governments, even social clubs.

Because EVERY religion will grow and spread, it will develop policies, doctrines, dogmas, covenants, etc., that primarily serve to facilitate this growth.

One of the most abhorrent ideas that, perversely, has some of the best growth potential for religions is the idea that people are defective and need religion to save them from their flaws. The whole Christian idea of original sin, eternal damnation, and MANDATORY salvation (OR ELSE! ) is the perfect example of this.

Supporting an upholding the notion of religion means supporting and upholding repulsive ideas like this. Sure, a few small religions seem to be much more sweet and nurturing, but they're also small and insignificant. The big players in the world's religions all maintain their power by convincing people that we're all weak, broken, sick, damned, unenlightened, etc., and that we MUST seek out those religions to save ourselves from these flaws.

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  The moral views on religion (such as homosexuality being a sin), these are things I would be against as they are irrational and false and only serve to bring chaos into this world.

No, they just serve to polarize the faithful and provide them with enemies. Another insidious idea that all religions foster. Having enemies, despicable people who are evil, sinful, or otherwise extremely intolerable, helps create solidarity within the faithful as they can all band together, point fingers, and say "We'll do anything to make sure we're never like those bad people!"

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  But as for just the religion itself (there being a God and an afterlife), that itself I would encourage in people.

Slippery slope.

Once the religion gets a foothold, a small core of followers, these other nasty tactics WILL always form. It's the surest way to grow and spread and retain current followers while acquiring new ones.

Until eventually even the sweetest religions turn into despicable, hate-mongering, fear-spreading, codependent parasitic organisms that case vastly more harm than any benefits they might have started out to provide.

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Positive outlook on life through atheism is neither less or better than positive outlook on life through religion.

But at least without religion, you're also free of all the negative, diabolical practices those religions use to cow their faithful flocks into submission.

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Therefore, if someone has a struggle with depression and believing in a religion makes them feel better, then you should never tell this person the truth of atheism.

I disagree.

You should help that person to find their place in this world, in this life, because it's all they have, the only chance they get to be happy and to find purpose and meaning.

That purpose and meaning should not come in the form of a delusional belief in lies or fantasies, regardless of whether those come from external sources (religion) or internal sources (our own dreams and desires).

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Or you could have a person like me in which religious belief would be ultimate perfection for my personality (if I believed in religion, this would be the best outlook on life I could ever achieve).

Hey, have you looked into Mormonism?

According to the Mormons, you will actually BECOME A GOD. it's true, you will, just ask them.

Of course, you have to ignore the fact that their particular brand of insidious cancer was invented by a convicted con-man and has been debunked by scientists in just about every scientific field imaginable.

But if you can ignore all the mountains of reasons why the Book of Mormon is pure fiction, this sounds like the perfect religion for you. Live by the LDS faith, follow their Doctrines and Covenants, die and go to the Celestial Kingdom, and god will turn you into a god and give you your own universe to use your omnipotent god powers however you want.

There, does that make YOU feel better?

I doubt it.

Because you know it's all B. S., and B. S. never makes anyone feel better when they know it's B.S.

Actually, the best outlook on life that you can achieve is NOT falling for B. S., focusing on you and your life and your friends and your loved ones and making the most of it because it's all you have.

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  Therefore, encouraging religion in these types of people would be needed.

Replace "needed" with "abhorrent" and I agree with you.

(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  But, of course, if they are an atheist to the point where nothing can convince them otherwise, I would instead encourage this "god-like superior-driven attitude" of mine in others in need

How's that working out for you so far?

Your long post here, and your confession of depression, make me think this hasn't gotten you where you want to be.

And I think you know it.

[quote='Mozart Link' pid='573344' dateline='1400486011']

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19-05-2014, 04:24 PM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 02:08 PM)Paul Linfor Wrote:  I think that when we humble atheists learn to deal with the fact that our powers are kind of underrated when it comes to other religions we still take the time to undergo strides and strides of improvement. So I believe that these godlike powers do exist in all of us but I think we need to discover them first.

Here is another quote from another famous atheists:

""Nearly all men can stand on adversity, but if you want to test man's character, give him atheism."

-Abraham Lincoln

If you're an atheist, I'm a leprechaun. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-05-2014, 04:31 PM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 02:08 PM)Paul Linfor Wrote:  ""Nearly all men can stand on adversity, but if you want to test man's character, give him atheism."
-Abraham Lincoln
That quote is incorrect - it's last phrase is " ... , give him power."

It might behoove you to stop fucking up what people say - someone might call you a liar or a fool. Dodgy From your behavior, I'd say those are both apt descriptions.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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19-05-2014, 04:39 PM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
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(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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19-05-2014, 06:23 PM (This post was last modified: 19-05-2014 06:58 PM by Mozart Link.)
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 07:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 01:53 AM)Mozart Link Wrote:  We as human beings are more than worthy of a life in which we are gods, are immortal, have no problems, etc. (a world that is more like that of an anime).

This is the root of your distress. It's not true - get over it. Drinking Beverage
This is just what this inferior life "wants" you to think. Through its "inferior" concepts (such as not being immortal, no God, this life being full of problems, etc.), this life "wants" you to have such a limited perspective of yourself. But whatever perception that you give yourself makes you who you are. Therefore, if you give yourself a superior god-like perception of yourself that is worthy of these things, then this is who you would be. Which is why I have chosen to defy what perception this life "wants" me to have with a perception of my own that makes me superior and worthy of those things. And this perception actually makes me feel empowered (not distress).

(19-05-2014 04:09 AM)Teen-skeptic-go! Wrote:  I'm sure that if someone was falling out of a plane, it would be more comforting to believe that they weren't, but if they didn't accept reality, they wouldn't use the parachute.
Even though knowing the facts of reality (that there is no afterlife and no God) would encourage people to use the "parachute" (make the very best of this life), the fact is that the things themselves that we do for personal enjoyment don't matter because without pleasure in life, then doing things that we would enjoy doing if we did have pleasure would now be worthless. In other words, it's the enjoyment itself that matters and is what we live for. Therefore, if religion gives people a better sense of enjoyment and such, then that's what I would encourage (again, just religion itself without the morals). But things having no value alone would just be referring to the things that you do in life for yourself that give you enjoyment (such as playing videogames or exercising). But when it comes to helping other people, it would be different and even if we didn't have any pleasure in helping others, just the deeds themselves of helping others does have value. Therefore, if possible, I would encourage religion without morals in such a way that it becomes just as encouraging as the atheist message that "You only have one life to live and that's it and you should make the very best of it." Many atheists might find that quoted message to be more driving in terms of helping others and making the best of their lives than people who are religious. But even so, I would completely encourage religion without morals in such a way that is just as encouraging (if possible). Actually, it would be both a religious view without morals combined with an atheist point of view that does not conflict with this religious view that I would encourage for both making the best of this life for yourself and in terms of helping others.

(19-05-2014 08:03 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  If we play our cards right we just might achieve a world where we are immortal and have no(or at least very few) problems and essentially become gods. I doubt any if us here will see that world but if everybody gave up on their delusions we could probably move forward much more quickly.
Religious delusions are and always have been stunting progress.
If we just have religion itself (there being a God and afterlife) without any morals and is something used just as a means of personal comfort and enjoyment, then I don't see how that would keep people from moving forward and how it would stunt progress. It would be these morals of religion that do these things.

If, let's pretend, every scientist had a religious belief, not even that would stunt scientific process. Scientists wish to logically learn more and more regardless. It would be the "lazy" scientists that choose to just simply give up their scientific pursuits and say "God did it."

(19-05-2014 08:36 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Any amount of pretending doesn't change reality and any problems with reality aren't resolved by running away into a fantasy world. The only way to deal with reality and to make the best of it is to face it head on. Unless you are one of the extremely unfortunate in the world who is born into a life of extreme poverty, extreme violence, or something similar, each person's reality is mostly what they make it. So, if you aren't happy with your life, then decide to make it better and start doing so.
It might not change reality (such as that there is no God and no afterlife), but it will create a reality in his/her head that he/she deserves. Also, as I stated before, it is pointless to view religion as somehow weak and a weak excuse from life's problems because we should avoid as much problems as possible in order to become more superior to this inferior life and its inferior problems and to experience more enjoyment (in other words, there is no point in facing reality when it is unnecessary). And in this case, it would be unnecessary to face the problems that many people fear and feel depressed about (such as there being no God and no afterlife). It is pointless because, as I stated in my opening post, a positive perception through atheism is neither less or better than a positive perception through religion. Therefore, it would be pointless for a religious person to realize and face these problems in order to instead achieve a positive perception through atheism. This would be, again, giving this person a pointless struggle just to simply have a different positive outlook on life that is no better than his/her already established outlook on life through religion. The situation might even be very likely to be worse in that not only would his/her positive outlook on life through religion be greater than his/her positive outlook on life through atheism in the sense that this person once derived more pleasure from their religious views, but also that this person still has episodes of depression from knowing that there is no God and no afterlife despite his/her positive outlook through atheism as opposed to his/her religious belief which gave him/her hope and such.

Yes, there are some problems that can't be resolved through religion, but as long as it gives most people a better sense of hope, comfort, and enjoyment in spite of these problems, then I would encourage it (again, without the morals).

(19-05-2014 03:19 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  That's too bad. Intelligence is never a curse. You seem fairly smart. Embrace your intelligence and accept that dreams and fantasies are fun to toy with, but trying to replace reality with a belief in your dreams/fantasies will only lead to insanity.
But at least I will be insane in a good way (the way I want to be). I'd completely rather be insane with feelings of mania (elevated sense of being, empowerment, worth, etc. through fantasy) and live my life getting shot up at the hospital because of this mania than be someone with a somewhat decent life with some depression who doesn't believe fantasy is real.

(19-05-2014 03:19 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I hate to say it so bluntly, but you might need to reexamine this personality you've created. Living a fantasy life with an artificial imaginary self-perspective will not get you much of anything but frustration, isolation, depression, or worse.
It all depends on the person and how they use it. In my case, my personality is made for "hardwired" to be fantasy-driven. But, again, I use it for feelings of empowerment and such--not to make myself feel worse. It might appear that way due to my rant on how these concepts of life (there being no God and no afterlife) are inferior, but I am using it to make myself feel empowered. If it weren't for my desire to be superior (a desire I obtained from fantasy), then instead, these concepts of life that I view as inferior would actually make me feel inferior. However, it's not fantasy itself that made me view these concepts of life as inferior in the first place (it's just my life experiences).

(19-05-2014 03:19 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  How dreadful.

Religion is like cancer - its only reason to exist is to grow and spread. This isn't only true of religions; it's also true of businesses, governments, even social clubs.

Because EVERY religion will grow and spread, it will develop policies, doctrines, dogmas, covenants, etc., that primarily serve to facilitate this growth.

One of the most abhorrent ideas that, perversely, has some of the best growth potential for religions is the idea that people are defective and need religion to save them from their flaws. The whole Christian idea of original sin, eternal damnation, and MANDATORY salvation (OR ELSE! ) is the perfect example of this.

Supporting an upholding the notion of religion means supporting and upholding repulsive ideas like this. Sure, a few small religions seem to be much more sweet and nurturing, but they're also small and insignificant. The big players in the world's religions all maintain their power by convincing people that we're all weak, broken, sick, damned, unenlightened, etc., and that we MUST seek out those religions to save ourselves from these flaws.
Wouldn't any negative result from religious belief all just come from morals (which I stated I was against)? Therefore, wouldn't religion by itself without any morals not cause any negative consequences?

(19-05-2014 03:19 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Slippery slope.

Once the religion gets a foothold, a small core of followers, these other nasty tactics WILL always form. It's the surest way to grow and spread and retain current followers while acquiring new ones.

Until eventually even the sweetest religions turn into despicable, hate-mongering, fear-spreading, codependent parasitic organisms that case vastly more harm than any benefits they might have started out to provide.
But why would religious people without morals eventually agree to religion with morals? If, for example, it religion without morals was somehow encouraged around the world as another possible belief to have, then how would that encourage people to believe in religion that has morals?

(19-05-2014 03:19 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I disagree.

You should help that person to find their place in this world, in this life, because it's all they have, the only chance they get to be happy and to find purpose and meaning.

That purpose and meaning should not come in the form of a delusional belief in lies or fantasies, regardless of whether those come from external sources (religion) or internal sources (our own dreams and desires).
And even that itself is neither better or less than having a positive perception through religion. As I stated before, making the best of this life (just in terms of the things you do to experience personal enjoyment such as playing videogames or exercising), those things alone by themselves do not matter without pleasure. Pleasure is what matters and is what we live for (so, again, if religion without morals gives them more pleasure, I would encourage it). But as for doing things that help others, those things do have value even without pleasure. So as for making the best of this life in terms of helping others (and just making the best of this life in general), I would encourage both religion without morals combined with an atheist point of view that does not conflict with this religious view.
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19-05-2014, 07:16 PM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 06:23 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 07:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  This is the root of your distress. It's not true - get over it. Drinking Beverage
This is just what this inferior life "wants" you to think. Through its "inferior" concepts (such as not being immortal, no God, this life being full of problems, etc.), this life "wants" you to have such a limited perspective of yourself. But whatever perception that you give yourself makes you who you are. Therefore, if you give yourself a superior god-like perception of yourself that is worthy of these things, then this is who you would be. Which is why I have chosen to defy what perception this life "wants" me to have with a perception of my own that makes me superior and worthy of those things. And this perception actually makes me feel empowered (not distress).

Personification of "this inferior life", calling our life inferior, etc.

Your thinking belongs in another era, like the prehistoric.

Go sacrifice a chicken, drink the blood, and shake some feathers at the moon.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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19-05-2014, 07:37 PM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 07:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 06:23 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  This is just what this inferior life "wants" you to think. Through its "inferior" concepts (such as not being immortal, no God, this life being full of problems, etc.), this life "wants" you to have such a limited perspective of yourself. But whatever perception that you give yourself makes you who you are. Therefore, if you give yourself a superior god-like perception of yourself that is worthy of these things, then this is who you would be. Which is why I have chosen to defy what perception this life "wants" me to have with a perception of my own that makes me superior and worthy of those things. And this perception actually makes me feel empowered (not distress).

Personification of "this inferior life", calling our life inferior, etc.

Your thinking belongs in another era, like the prehistoric.

Go sacrifice a chicken, drink the blood, and shake some feathers at the moon.
I did not say that this life itself is inferior (just those concepts I've just mentioned). There are superior factors of life which would be doing the things we enjoy and such. However, the logical truth would be that those "inferior concepts" of life I've mentioned are neither superior nor inferior (they are "as is" since the logical truth is that life has no meaning and it's instead what meaning we give it). But as I said before, it's just my own personality that says that these things are inferior (only to me). I am not saying that anyone else should view these concepts as inferior like me (especially if not viewing them as inferior actually makes them feel better). However, if viewing them as inferior does in fact make them feel better like how it does with me, then I would encourage it. Therefore, I mean absolutely no offense in saying this. Also, any perception that anyone has that makes them feel good (even if it is mythological as opposed to modern views such as science and atheism), they are neither inferior nor superior to one another. Whatever one that makes you feel the best is the one that's superior (for you).
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19-05-2014, 07:45 PM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 06:23 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I'd completely rather be insane with feelings of mania (elevated sense of being, empowerment, worth, etc. through fantasy) and live my life getting shot up at the hospital because of this mania than be someone with a somewhat decent life with some depression who doesn't believe fantasy is real.

If you want to live in a fantasy world where you are empowered and have a elevated sense of worth then drop a tab of acid while playing some D&D and stop wasting our time with your poorly written pseudo-philosophic word salad.

You have the rationalizations of a heroin addict, and you speak like a cowardly child in a desperate state of panic about having to grow the fuck up. Peter Pan ain't real so deal with it.
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19-05-2014, 08:15 PM
RE: How I feel about my atheism and why I'd encourage religion
(19-05-2014 07:45 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(19-05-2014 06:23 PM)Mozart Link Wrote:  I'd completely rather be insane with feelings of mania (elevated sense of being, empowerment, worth, etc. through fantasy) and live my life getting shot up at the hospital because of this mania than be someone with a somewhat decent life with some depression who doesn't believe fantasy is real.

If you want to live in a fantasy world where you are empowered and have a elevated sense of worth then drop a tab of acid while playing some D&D and stop wasting our time with your poorly written pseudo-philosophic word salad.

You have the rationalizations of a heroin addict, and you speak like a cowardly child in a desperate state of panic about having to grow the fuck up. Peter Pan ain't real so deal with it.
Again, referring back to the previous post I just made here, I mean no offense and had no intention of wasting anyone's time. I just simply wanted to express how I feel and see if there are people who can relate. Also, in regards to the concept of "growing up," just because someone has a fantasy-like perception and has not realized (in this case, "grown up") to know the truth of atheism, does not make their positive fantasy-like perception any better or less than a positive atheism perception. Even having to say to someone to "grow up" might imply that their fantasy-like perception is inferior, which is not the case at all. It's all about what perceptions in life give you the best pleasure (that does not do anyone else harm). The perceptions in life that bring you the greatest pleasure will make you grow as a person with more joy and such (and it's all good as long as it does no one else harm). Therefore, this fantasy-driven perception of mine has actually caused me to "grow up" in that I have achieved a greater sense of self-worth and empowerment despite my depression.
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