How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
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13-08-2017, 05:05 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(13-08-2017 02:03 AM)FarSeeker Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 07:43 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  @Morondog

Not atheist but "communist" regimes. Or built upon foundation of marxism to be more precise. Marxism that evolved into religion, in SU at least.

Pol pot crimes had more to do with his want of returning to glory of Angkor from what I remember from his biography. His marxism was also influenced with religious themes if I recall correctly and strange.

Who were the "communists"... That's RIGHT=> ATHEISTS. Only Atheists could join The Party. Only Atheists could run for government office. Only Atheists could be elected.
ONLY ATHEISTS ruled the Marxist nations. Facepalm

What you "recall" is not reliable.

"Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk."

You know shit and write shit. That's par of the course for theist though and doubly so for troll so I'm not surprised. Learn a little, child, before trying to argue with better educated.

As for argument try reading Rafał Imos "The Faith of the Soviet Man". I doubt however that your tiny, indoctrinated brain will be able to comprehend knowledge contained within.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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13-08-2017, 05:31 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(13-08-2017 02:36 AM)morondog Wrote:  I've decided that FarSeeker is the online equivalent of those twats who stand around with "God hates fags" signs.

He's not here for debate, or to actually engage in conversation. He's purely here to push his bullshit ideas. Any challenge to those bullshit ideas will be met with either evasion, pretend-refutations, or failing all else complete silence, while he carries on shouting about how we atheists all are de facto mass-murder lovers. He's a dishonest prick.

Hey FarSeeker, do you think you're actually doing some good in the world, or are you just satisfying your urge to be a giant douche?
His trolling (ot truly extreme stupidity) was obvious from begining. Starting with writing some shit about atheists having no reason to abstain from mass murder or whatever shit he spew in first post made clear that debate isn't what was on his mind. Just slinging shit which I guess is best diversion that empty mind can get from dulness of his life.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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13-08-2017, 07:25 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(13-08-2017 01:23 AM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Then again, why weren't so many Atheist leaders "GOOD WITHOUT GOD"?

Why are so many theist leaders not good even with god? Should we start listing prominent believers who have done or made calls for absolutely disgusting actions? It is likely to be a long list.

Nevermind... just keep arguing your strawman version of atheism.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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13-08-2017, 08:35 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
He's right, you know, guys. Religious leaders have always been pussycats, compared to them nasty atheists, who totally killed in the name of atheism and not because they were dictators who just happened not to be religious Drinking Beverage

Just look at their sweet faces, so full of Christian love and compassion. Saints and angels walking this earth, that's what they were...
[Image: inquisition-wheel.jpg]

[Image: 46e2ae7192ce0eb137024d82bb43a445--roman-...urches.jpg]

[Image: 90cfb3a4f07fcc7e38fdf9cc8691f4cb--flat-e...sition.jpg]

And don't forget those brave manly men, spreading the loving word of the Prince of Peace by the tried and true methods of torture, murder and good old rape.

[Image: z165471468.jpg]

Truly a force for good in this world it's always been.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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15-08-2017, 03:13 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(11-08-2017 12:39 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  As far as i can see nothing has changed in the past few pages. FS is accusing atheists of mass murder but is still unable to even comment on "killing each and every living thing on earth" or "killing all firstborn of a people" or "kill all their cattle even". Drinking Beverage
He doesnt even bother to privide evidence for why the Canaanites were thugs and had to be eradicated (again: all of them, guilty by association). Something that most probably didnt happen anyway as we just recently found out.

He also has still not provided any argument as for why and how being an atheist makes mass murder a rational choice. All atheists who participated in this thread have proven him otherwise by rejecting mass murer, but they, probably they arent True Atheists?

He is just another obscene person, storming into the house of people he doesnt even know and starts shitting on the carpet. A True Christian. Yes

1) Marxist states, those past and those present, have committed mass murder, to claim anything else is a Holocaust denial. That Atheists have participated in such acts is unequivocally FACT.
2) The history in the Bible is simply not relevant to this discussion. Especially as you are attempting to divert the discussion from something that happened recently with a digression into something that happened millennia ago.
3) If morality is whatever mankind decides it is, then the decisions of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris Rational Choices are as valid as any of yours; whether you agree with them or not. "All atheists who participated in this thread," are a statistically Insignificant number of Atheists who are unwilling to even attempt to spread their moral code outside their statistically insignificant community.
Let us say for the sake of argument, you believe mass murder is wrong. Can Atheists who claim that no religion is permitted to force its moral code on them legitimately force Their moral code on anyone else?

"have proven him otherwise by rejecting mass murer,"[sic] Actually, no. I have not read (altho, perhaps I missed such among the insults and lame attempts at comedy) any such explicit rejection. What I have read are statements such as, "I disagree with some of Hitchens' statements and agree with others." Which are at their foundation ambiguous.

As I have been nice enough to answer your questions, would you be so kind as to answer mine, Which I Might Add I Asked First, And You Have Cowardly Avoided:
Are the given statements of Christopher Hitchens Totalitarian in nature?

So, do you have enough integrity to answer my question?
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15-08-2017, 03:19 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
As an example of what I said above:

(11-08-2017 05:24 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I disavow many things Hitchens said, particularly when he delved into politics.
He was a prominent atheist but that does not mean that people simply accept
everything he says "as gospel". We consider the points he makes, look at the reasons
he made them, and come to our own conclusions to each individual question. On
the whole, I greatly respect the man.
On individual points I may differ.

Yes, but WHAT EXACTLY do you "disavow"?
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15-08-2017, 03:22 PM (This post was last modified: 15-08-2017 03:25 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(15-08-2017 03:13 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  1) Marxist states, those past and those present, have committed mass murder, to claim anything else is a Holocaust denial.


You already shown yourself a fool but with this bit of idiocy you take the crown. Saying that SU isn't responsible for Holodomor is Holocaust denial? Achieving such level of ignorance is no small feat, you're inspiration to fools everywhere.

At least you're honest enough to write about Marxist states, though to be more precise you could write about Marxist-Leninist and Maoist ones. And Pol-Potist however strange it sound.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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15-08-2017, 03:36 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(15-08-2017 03:13 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  1) Marxist states, those past and those present, have committed mass murder, to claim anything else is a Holocaust denial. That Atheists have participated in such acts is unequivocally FACT.
OK. So some atheists have killed people. So what? You are trying to claim that they killed people because they are atheists? You haven't shown that at all.

Quote:2) The history in the Bible is simply not relevant to this discussion. Especially as you are attempting to divert the discussion from something that happened recently with a digression into something that happened millennia ago.
The question, regardless that you are trying to run away from it, is on what basis do *you* condemn mass-murder, when your own God has frequently called for it? As I asked you previously, would YOU kill, if the voice in your head told you to?

Quote:3) If morality is whatever mankind decides it is, then the decisions of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris Rational Choices are as valid as any of yours; whether you agree with them or not. "All atheists who participated in this thread," are a statistically Insignificant number of Atheists who are unwilling to even attempt to spread their moral code outside their statistically insignificant community.
You still haven't shown that religion produces any sort of good moral code. And why the fuck should we evangelise people? Fuck off with telling us what to do.

Quote: Let us say for the sake of argument, you believe mass murder is wrong. Can Atheists who claim that no religion is permitted to force its moral code on them legitimately force Their moral code on anyone else?
I repeat my question to you: do you believe that you DO have a licence to force your moral code on others? I certainly don't believe that I have such a licence. I do however believe in contributing towards a democratic process of building consensus laws. Which is a. a secular process b. we do have laws against murder, so I don't see what the fuck you're crying about.

Quote:"have proven him otherwise by rejecting mass murer,"[sic] Actually, no. I have not read (altho, perhaps I missed such among the insults and lame attempts at comedy) any such explicit rejection. What I have read are statements such as, "I disagree with some of Hitchens' statements and agree with others." Which are at their foundation ambiguous.

As I have been nice enough to answer your questions, would you be so kind as to answer mine, Which I Might Add I Asked First, And You Have Cowardly Avoided:
Are the given statements of Christopher Hitchens Totalitarian in nature?

So, do you have enough integrity to answer my question?
I still have no idea what the fuck you're so hung up on Christopher Hitchens for, but if he did indeed say what you claim, about celebrating death of religious people then there's nothing to be said in defense of that. I strongly expect though, that you are taking his words out of context if he ever said such a thing at all. So the fuck WHAT? None of us looks at him as some kind of saint. We don't have to wholesale endorse stuff that he said. Just like you religious idiots can be right about some things and wrong about others, so can atheists. And for crying out loud I've watched ONE fucking youtube debate of Hitchens where he was a fucking decent speaker. Other than that I don't read his shit. It's the same for lots of people. So stop trying to force your myopic views of who we are. We aren't defined by your prejudices, you stupid prick.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-08-2017, 06:50 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(11-08-2017 07:43 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  @Morondog

Not atheist but "communist" regimes. Or built upon foundation of marxism to be more precise. Marxism that evolved into religion, in SU at least.

Pol pot crimes had more to do with his want of returning to glory of Angkor from what I remember from his biography. His marxism was also influenced with religious themes if I recall correctly and strange.

Your recollections are not valid evidence.
OTOH:
Marxist/Communist regimes Are Atheist Regimes:
"The Soviet Union, and many other communist states, were officially atheist - and they didn't just reject religion, they also persecuted religious people. Religious people were barred from many jobs - the better jobs all required Communist Party membership, and atheism was compulsory for all Communist Party members."

"However, it is to be noted that Marx never advocated for the oppression of religion — he just believed that religion would not be practiced anymore if a utopian communist society was to come to fruition," - http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Atheist_fundamentalism

Thus the persecution did Not originate from Marx, or Marxism.
So if persecution was never a part of what Marx advocated, where did it come from? The answer is Atheists and their dedication to Atheism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_...t_Atheists

https://books.google.com/books?id=BGJtDw...sm&f=false

From "The Humanist" magazine:
"Oppressive Atheism: In China, Religion Can Be a Form of Activism"
https://thehumanist.com/news/internation...m-activism
"China’s governing party, the Communist Party of China (CPC), recently banned the practice of religion for all of its 88+ million members in an effort to “maintain Party unity.” "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion...ted_States
Puts the "without a religious affiliation" population in the USA at 20% (2008), but that includes "agnostics, atheists, deists, secular humanists, and general secularists." That 20% breaks down into: "68% believe in God, 12% are atheists, 17% are agnostics" (that adds up to 97%, so some fractions are missing)
So: 20% * 12% = ~ 2.4 %.
But the same article states:
"in 2014, 22.8% of the American population does not identify with a religion, including atheists (3.1%) and agnostics (4%)."
and
"5% of the US population did not have a belief in a god and out of that small group only 24% self-identified as "atheist", while 15% self-identified as "agnostic" and 35% self-identified as "nothing in particular"."
So: 5% * 24% = ~1.25%]

US population in 2014: 318.6 Million.
Going with the highest: 3.1%, the math that gives: ~9.9 Million US Atheists.

There are almost 9 times more Atheists in the PRC Communist Party than there are Atheists are in the entire USA.

Again, among Atheists your opinion is insignificant.
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15-08-2017, 06:59 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(15-08-2017 03:19 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  As an example of what I said above:

(11-08-2017 05:24 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I disavow many things Hitchens said, particularly when he delved into politics.
He was a prominent atheist but that does not mean that people simply accept
everything he says "as gospel". We consider the points he makes, look at the reasons
he made them, and come to our own conclusions to each individual question. On
the whole, I greatly respect the man.
On individual points I may differ.

Yes, but WHAT EXACTLY do you "disavow"?

Why do you care?
Why do you think Hitchens' opinion on things other than the question of the existence of a god is important to atheists in general?
Why are you unable to think as an individual?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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