How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
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16-08-2017, 12:11 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
Egor, Egor, Egor...

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Oh no, what have I done! [Image: rf513e4c14.gif]

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderĂ²."
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16-08-2017, 01:52 AM (This post was last modified: 16-08-2017 03:02 AM by Deesse23.)
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(15-08-2017 03:13 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  
(11-08-2017 12:39 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  As far as i can see nothing has changed in the past few pages. FS is accusing atheists of mass murder but is still unable to even comment on "killing each and every living thing on earth" or "killing all firstborn of a people" or "kill all their cattle even". Drinking Beverage
He doesnt even bother to privide evidence for why the Canaanites were thugs and had to be eradicated (again: all of them, guilty by association). Something that most probably didnt happen anyway as we just recently found out.

He also has still not provided any argument as for why and how being an atheist makes mass murder a rational choice. All atheists who participated in this thread have proven him otherwise by rejecting mass murer, but they, probably they arent True Atheists?

He is just another obscene person, storming into the house of people he doesnt even know and starts shitting on the carpet. A True Christian. Yes

2) The history in the Bible is simply not relevant to this discussion. Especially as you are attempting to divert the discussion from something that happened recently with a digression into something that happened millennia ago.
Is this an attempt to excuse it because it happened millenia ago?
The history of the bible is...a red herring tossed in by you.
I was asking about the morality of the bible and its actors within, and your moral evaluation of those actions.

Why arent you able or willing to give answers to the most simple moral evaluations? Is it ok to kill every living thing on earth, etc.? IS.IT?
Why pressing on your attacks on Marxists or whatever people, whom i frankly dont give a fuck about, because i am not a Marxist, Maoist, Leninist, Pol Potist or Nazi.

(15-08-2017 03:13 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  3) If morality is whatever mankind decides it is, then the decisions of Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Christopher Hitchens and Sam Harris Rational Choices are as valid as any of yours; whether you agree with them or not. "All atheists who participated in this thread," are a statistically Insignificant number of Atheists who are unwilling to even attempt to spread their moral code outside their statistically insignificant community.
Let us say for the sake of argument, you believe mass murder is wrong. Can Atheists who claim that no religion is permitted to force its moral code on them legitimately force Their moral code on anyone else?
So, in other words, because we may make wrong decisions about morals, we better not decide at all? Are you that scared of taking some fucking responsibility for your life and granting the same responsibility to others? Is that why you rather make up a celestial tyrant? Pretty weak base to base your world view and your morals on i say.
But why are you unable to make the most basic moral evaluations then? Your book clearly has a moral framework within its limits it was ab.so.fucking.lutely. ok to kill everything god created (or every firstborn, cattle, Canaanites, no matter if and how evil they really were). Might makes right, you know. Why cant you own up to the very moral principles that you are advocating here? If you would and said "yes, it was ok by god to kill everything" you would at least be consistent and honest, albeit a moral monster, but as things stand you are nothing but a coward, advoctaing what he doesnt own up to.

I am tired of your evasions now. Thus i am gonna tell you why you cant morally evaluate "killing every living thing on earth": because you are more moral than your god, and you know it. Because there is a conflict in you, Anakin. You know your god is immoral, the imaginary god you chose to suck up to, because you are afraid to be like Stalin. Thats why you cant openly defend your god.
Its quite ironic that, for fear to be like Stalin yourself you have decided (or being conned into) sucking up to an imaginary being who is infinitely more immoral than Stalin, but hey, at least you arent responsible yourself anymore for the consequences, eh?

And because you are such a coward i am not going to adress your cowardly deflections to what atheists should or should not believe and rationally chose according to a coward who wont actually defend what he is claiming to be a noh so superior moral framework.

For the last time about Hitches: I dont care who he is and what he said besides what i think was defensible. I.am.thinking.for.myself. If he said something repugnant the it was repugnant. If he said someting valuable and true then its valuable and true. I keep my right to disagree with him, if you like this or not. For the upteenth time: Hitchens.is.no.figure.of.authority.to.me.so.leave.me.alone.with.him.

But this doesnt matter as much as:
What is the basis, the foundation of your morals? We can discuss this if you want, but first i need to see if you are honest and will own up to what you are professing to defend, the principles given in your holy book:

Is and was it moral to kill every living thing on earth, no matter who does it? (of course, please include cattle, Canaanits, Egypt, since the bible proudly proclaims what happened to those and why)

P.S.: Please keep equating Stalin with Hitches and Mao with Harris. You are just demonstrating that you indeed understand nothing about human empathy and better have an authority figure to give you orders on how to behave. I would just prefer to give you an authority that is less of....the worst possible authority to have regarding being a "good human being". Someone who maybe orders you to "not rape" instead of "rape but pay her dad off", because you may go and rape at will without being prohibited to do so, because thats your base argument: We cant be moral without god, that includes you too. Right?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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16-08-2017, 04:43 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(15-08-2017 08:19 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Prove that what they did was wrong.


You need proof that SU crimes weren't good thing? Given that your notion of morality is tied to genocidal deity it does not surprise me.

Quote:Atheists found it rational to negotiate a treaty with the Nazis to divide Poland.


Soviets whose religion was called marxism-leninism. Though it was Stalin, man who attended seminary who decided. Also christian nation of Germany didn't had problem with starting war against Poland and slaughtering civilians practicaly from beggining of it.

Quote:The Atheists found it reasonable to commit mass murder at Katyn Forrest.


Soviets whose religion was called marxism-leninism. Though allegedly Beria was against [Francoise Thom, "Beria. Le Janus du Kremlin"]. Murder was decided by Stalin, man who attended seminary.

Quote: To them it was the Reasonable thing to do. Nothing in Marxism told them to do it.


Nothing in Marxism, sure. Soviet state religion was marxism-leninism however. Also don't play bigger fool than you are, Poles were killed in attempt to destroy Poland elites and those deemed troublesome for Soviets.

Rest of your verbal vomit isn't worth pissing on much less commenting.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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16-08-2017, 05:22 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
I don't see that these wars based on ideology are a big deal anyway. SO THE FUCK WHAT?

If you have a different theory of gravity, and I kill you because I hate your theory of gravity and think mine is better, ONE of those theories is correct. It doesn't matter that I carry out atrocities in the name of my theory.

You spend all your time trying to make out that we're dangerous, but even if we *were*, it doesn't say anything about whether you're correct or not to be some revolting form of Christian.

The only way to judge is to take the assertions of your religion and check them against reality. And they come up short.

So sorry bud, go the fuck ahead. I'm tired of arguing with you. You can believe what the fuck you like about us, but reality doesn't give two shits about your misinformed beliefs. Your God doesn't exist.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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16-08-2017, 10:40 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(15-08-2017 08:21 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  
(13-08-2017 05:05 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  You know shit and write shit.

I know some serious s***.
And all of it is about Atheists. Big Grin

You have yet to demonstrate that.
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16-08-2017, 10:57 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(15-08-2017 10:41 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  Islamic civilization is very strong because of religion. I don't think religion destroys every civilization it's prevalent in, in fact I think religion makes righteous nations even stronger. The sanctity of marriage is an essential tenet of a cohesive society, and Muslim women are the perfect example of a good wife.

This explains so much....
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16-08-2017, 01:21 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(15-08-2017 08:19 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Prove that what they did was wrong.

I realize what fallacious reasoning you're trying to use here, and it's really not going to work. You're trying to get people to admit atheists can't be moral without God and that God is the source of all morality, therefore 'godless' regimes would engage in horrific crimes more than 'godly' ones. We shall apparently not discuss the Bible, which you tossed out there as a red herring as a historical text, nor shall we ever touch upon the hundreds of years of European religious wars, colonizations and conversions at gunpoint, or genocides by religious people. Because your framework is that these were not done in the name of faith somehow, but the Soviet Union's were done in the name of Atheism?

As your fellow Christian, let me just do a brief thought experiment here. You're stating that all morality flows from God; therefore this would include the morality of every human being. Which means if someone is moral, then they don't realize that morality is coming from God.

However, if that is the case, then if someone needs the Bible to tell them to be a moral person, why wouldn't they have that (quite literally) God-given morality? I, for one, never want to be alone with anyone whose morality is solely contingent on "the Bible says not to rape and kill a person, so that's the only reason I'm not" as apologists such as Prager have said.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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16-08-2017, 11:06 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(15-08-2017 08:34 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:19 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Atheists did it because they found it the reasonable thing to do.
QED. Cool

Forgive my ignorance of the history of past murderous atheistic regimes, I'm admittedly not an astute student of history. I am aware of the great tragedies and that some were committed by avowed atheists.

My question is, what exactly was the reasoning behind the massacres committed and what exactly did it have to do with atheism at face value? I don't ever hear this discussed in any detail.

I appreciate any and all answers given. Thanks.

Actually, astuteness is not required; just an interest in educating yourself:

When Atheists Rule, they reason:
1) There is no deity.
2) There are no rules or morality given by deities.
3) We Atheists make the rules and decide what is moral.

Hitchens specific reasoning:
1) "I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful." C. Hitchens

2) "I'm not going to love them. You go love them if you want. Don't love them on my behalf. I'll get on with killing them, destroying them, erasing them. And you can love them. But the idea that you ought to love them is not a moral idea at all. It's a wicked idea." C. Hitchens

From First Amendment to Auschwitz in just a few easy steps.
---

Quotes and reasoning from other Atheists could be added; specifically those of Lenin, Russell, and Harris.

For example, an Atheist on this forum has a catch phrase that read: "Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse," which is Latin for: "But I think that religion must be destroyed." A sentiment Lenin, Hitchens, Harris and a bunch of other Atheists shared/share.

The Atheist posters on this forum prove my point. They pontificate about their claim to morals, but they will likely never try to convince any other Atheists the killing Christians will not reduce their numbers.
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16-08-2017, 11:14 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(16-08-2017 11:06 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:34 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Forgive my ignorance of the history of past murderous atheistic regimes, I'm admittedly not an astute student of history. I am aware of the great tragedies and that some were committed by avowed atheists.

My question is, what exactly was the reasoning behind the massacres committed and what exactly did it have to do with atheism at face value? I don't ever hear this discussed in any detail.

I appreciate any and all answers given. Thanks.


Hitchens specific reasoning:
1) "I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful." C. Hitchens

2) "I'm not going to love them. You go love them if you want. Don't love them on my behalf. I'll get on with killing them, destroying them, erasing them. And you can love them. But the idea that you ought to love them is not a moral idea at all. It's a wicked idea." C. Hitchens

What's the bug up your butt about Hitchens anyway? You do know that he's dead, right?

What's also with the quote mining his quotes?

I'm not following this weird fascination you seem to have. Seriously, dude I think you need a hobby or something.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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16-08-2017, 11:45 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(16-08-2017 11:14 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 11:06 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Hitchens specific reasoning:
1) "I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful." C. Hitchens

2) "I'm not going to love them. You go love them if you want. Don't love them on my behalf. I'll get on with killing them, destroying them, erasing them. And you can love them. But the idea that you ought to love them is not a moral idea at all. It's a wicked idea." C. Hitchens

What's the bug up your butt about Hitchens anyway? You do know that he's dead, right?

What's also with the quote mining his quotes?

I'm not following this weird fascination you seem to have. Seriously, dude I think you need a hobby or something.

I like Hitchens, I wish I knew about him when he was still alive.

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
Big Grin
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