How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-08-2017, 12:45 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(16-08-2017 11:06 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  When Atheists Rule, they reason:
Hitchens specific reasoning:

2) "I'm not going to love them. You go love them if you want. Don't love them on my behalf. I'll get on with killing them, destroying them, erasing them. And you can love them. But the idea that you ought to love them is not a moral idea at all. It's a wicked idea." C. Hitchens

You are a liar for Jesus, a liar nevertheless. Thats why i am done with you.
Fuck off, you lying quotemining scumbag. Fuck you and your moral high horse. How sickening to come here, tell us all we are immoral monsters (or should be) while lying out of your mouth left and right. I bet your god is not amused.
Shame on yourself and your self righeousness.

See you in hell, fucker.

Hitches original quote:
Quote:I know who my enemies are. At the moment the most deadly ones are Islamist theocrats with a homicidal and genocidal agenda. I'm not going to love them. You go love them if you want; don't love them on my behalf. I'll get on with killing them and destroying them, erasing them and you can love them.
He is clearly referring to people "with a homicidal and genocidal agenda" as his enemies he wants to "killing them and destroying them, erasing them ".
You tried to make it look like he was referring to religious people in general.

Now, please tell me: whats the difference between Hitchens wanting to kill all homicidal and genocidal theocrats, and your god ordering to kill all Canaanites? Right, Hitchens doenst want to kill innocent people.

Fuck.off.liar.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Deesse23's post
17-08-2017, 01:21 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(16-08-2017 11:45 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 11:14 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  What's the bug up your butt about Hitchens anyway? You do know that he's dead, right?

What's also with the quote mining his quotes?

I'm not following this weird fascination you seem to have. Seriously, dude I think you need a hobby or something.

I like Hitchens, I wish I knew about him when he was still alive.

He was a good debater and writer but...He never spoke for all atheists on all subjects. He did speak nicely for himself. At least contrary to what FarReacher seems to believe.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Momsurroundedbyboys's post
17-08-2017, 02:11 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
I'm sort of semi-motivated to go watch some Hitchens debates now. Just to see the man for myself. Since FarSeeker seems to be a totally untrustworthy source. I guess maybe anyone else who's following along might do the same. So... unless FS was a poe and this was his intention all along, congratulations dickhead Smile You've had a negative impact on your religion by your second rate evangelism.

You know what a *good* evangelist would do? They'd try to understand people. They'd show how *good* they were. They'd talk about what Jesus had done for them. They'd share the *joy*. They'd fail utterly of course, but they'd fail gracefully and they'd leave a good impression of themselves and their religion (since religious twits care about representing their religion). Then when we talked about how shit religion is we'd always have to say "Except for those guys, they seemed like pretty stand up guys. I'd hang out with them". Instead we get these people who lie and are egregiously stupid. It makes it easy to reject religion.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like morondog's post
17-08-2017, 02:25 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(17-08-2017 01:21 AM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(16-08-2017 11:45 PM)JesseB Wrote:  I like Hitchens, I wish I knew about him when he was still alive.

He was a good debater and writer but...He never spoke for all atheists on all subjects. He did speak nicely for himself. At least contrary to what FarReacher seems to believe.

I liked his reasoning but didnt necessary agree with his (overly) agressive and alienating style.

Doesnt change the fact that FS was lying as to what Hitchens exactly said. Which is particularly infuriating since its the f.ing x-ians who always point out "context".
I guess "quod licet jovi non licet bovi" from his point of view. Angry

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Deesse23's post
17-08-2017, 08:39 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(17-08-2017 02:11 AM)morondog Wrote:  I'm sort of semi-motivated to go watch some Hitchens debates now. Just to see the man for myself. Since FarSeeker seems to be a totally untrustworthy source. I guess maybe anyone else who's following along might do the same.

He can be brusque, alienating, and rather angry at times. That said, I think BibleReloaded once put it best with, "Sure he could be an asshole, but he was a loveable asshole with a scotch always in hand."

Contrary to the quote mining by FarSeeker, and bear in mind I fundamentally disagree with Hitchens, he wasn't that bad. I remember reading, shortly after his death, a Christian pastor's article about debating him once and how he asked Hitch afterwards why Hitch had gone easier on him with the polemics than he had on others, and Hitch's response was something along the lines of, 'because while I think your religion is harmful, I don't think you're necessarily a bad person, whereas most of these people, I do.' Likewise, I've barely read much of God is Not Great, but he goes to great lengths in the opening chapter to say that while the woman who taught his religion classes at school is the main reason he lost belief early, she was in no way a bad person, nor should any Christian hold a grudge against her for it. That she was a kind and caring woman who loved her students and her God.

Need to think of a witty signature.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2017, 09:32 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(16-08-2017 01:21 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(15-08-2017 08:19 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Prove that what they did was wrong.
I realize what fallacious reasoning you're trying to use here, and it's really not going to work. You're trying to get people to admit atheists can't be moral without God and that God is the source of all morality, therefore 'godless' regimes would engage in horrific crimes more than 'godly' ones. We shall apparently not discuss the Bible, which you tossed out there as a red herring as a historical text, nor shall we ever touch upon the hundreds of years of European religious wars, colonizations and conversions at gunpoint, or genocides by religious people. Because your framework is that these were not done in the name of faith somehow, but the Soviet Union's were done in the name of Atheism?

As your fellow Christian, let me just do a brief thought experiment here. You're stating that all morality flows from God; therefore this would include the morality of every human being. Which means if someone is moral, then they don't realize that morality is coming from God.

However, if that is the case, then if someone needs the Bible to tell them to be a moral person, why wouldn't they have that (quite literally) God-given morality? I, for one, never want to be alone with anyone whose morality is solely contingent on "the Bible says not to rape and kill a person, so that's the only reason I'm not" as apologists such as Prager have said.

RE:"You're trying to get people to admit atheists can't be moral without God "
Eeegh, Not Quite. Stalin did Not pull out a gun and shoot FDR and Churchill; as much as he would have loved to.
Atheists cannot hold to a moral code any more than a ship can sail a course without a rudder. While such a ship could stay on course for short periods of time, you cannot expect it to maintain it. "Godless" regimes have engaged in horrific crimes more than 'godly' ones - given an apples-to-apples comparison.

Re: "nor shall we ever touch upon the hundreds of years of European religious wars, colonizations and conversions at gunpoint, or genocides by religious people."

Those were political acts. You will look long and hard for anything in the Bible instructing Christians to do any of that, and more often were in explicit contradiction of the Bible's teachings. I've never said Christians are perfect, so get off that strawman.

If you are unwilling to touch upon the recent years of Atheist wars, colonizations, and conversions at gunpoint, or genocides of religious people, your pot is a lot blacker than my kettle.
Once the guidance of God is rejected, Atheism is left with whatever Atheists find reasonable. While Christians have a guide they can use (like law books by a lawyer), every rationalism of an Atheist is gospel; thus you have people like Lenin, Mao and Craig Stephen Hicks.

RE: "Which means if someone is moral, then they don't realize that morality is coming from God."
The answer: Romans 2:14-16 and Romans 1:24-32

RE: "I, for one, never want to be alone with anyone whose morality is solely contingent on "the Bible says ..."
Have you ever been around anyone whose morality is solely contingent on "the law books say ..."? Like police, Lawyers or judges?
Why are you so happy to be alone with people whose rationalizations are gospel? Would you be alone with an Atheist who says: "I'm not going to love them. You go love them if you want. Don't love them on my behalf. I'll get on with killing them, destroying them, erasing them. And you can love them. But the idea that you ought to love them is not a moral idea at all. It's a wicked idea." (Hitchens)
Many an Atheist would and have.

Atheists should have a love-hate relationship with C. Hitchens, because he keeps shooting them in the foot as much as he helps them:

"..those who view the history of North America as a narrative of genocide and slavery are, it seems to me, hopelessly stuck on this reactionary position. They can think of the Western expansion of the United States only in terms of plague blankets, bootleg booze and dead buffalo, never in terms of the medicine chest, the wheel and the railway."
"Minority Report", The Nation, October 19, 1992

Whether you compare the USA with the Atheist USSR or the Pagan Roman Empire, the USA comes out stinking a lot less.
[Image: 1247287]
P.S. You still haven't proven that what the Atheists (Lenin, Mao, Hicks, etc.) did was morally wrong.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2017, 10:52 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
Hello! Big Grin

Others have already addressed your quote mining of the late Hitchens so I'll not travel over such a well trod path. Thumbsup

(17-08-2017 09:32 AM)FarSeeker Wrote:  .... You still haven't proven that what the Atheists (Lenin, Mao... etc.) did was morally wrong.

So, this above? You keep saying said people were athiests.

Please prove such. So far all we have are your assertions that they were atheists.

That thier forms of politics were not freindly towards denominations is something we can all agree on.

That you then travel a long walk off a short peer as you assert that said folks were atheists and is now something you have to show evidence for.

Yes

Once we're over that hurdle... you can explain how your take on 'Atheists' are similar to other groups, such as 'Catholics'.

Thumbsup

Much cheers to yourself and yours.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-08-2017, 03:04 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(17-08-2017 09:32 AM)FarSeeker Wrote:  "..those who view the history of North America as a narrative of genocide and slavery are, it seems to me, hopelessly stuck on this reactionary position. They can think of the Western expansion of the United States only in terms of plague blankets, bootleg booze and dead buffalo, never in terms of the medicine chest, the wheel and the railway."
"Minority Report", The Nation, October 19, 1992
I really tried to go through and reply to this point by point, however, I failed to do so. You shift so many goal posts as to make it impossible. Bring up demands that the acts of some atheists be proven morally wrong...whereas when done in the name of our Lord, they're morally okay because no True Christian ™ would do such a thing. You do see how it's less of a strawman and more of an equivocation, don't you? You're claiming people did these things because they're atheists, however, they can't do them when they're members of our group because they're members of our group, then it's a "political act".

Plus why waste the time on a good reply when you still refuse to acknowledge that I'm not an atheist, as proven in your line, "your pot is a lot blacker than my kettle." Or with such blatant misrepresentations of entire professions (lawyers, judges, police officers) and how they work as you ignore the role that discretion plays in carrying out those jobs, instead making it appear as if they are automata who do only what the law states. (Where you are trying to set up the argument that God is a Just God and He will judge us upon the Law, except for, as hinted to by your cherrypicking from Saint Paul's Letter to the Romans, people take the 'Roman Road' to salvation, as Evangelicals put it. Then this swiftly becomes a quagmire of philosophical and theological debate as to whether an infinitely merciful God can also be an infinitely Just God, because Justice and Mercy don't intertwine that way necessarily in theological terms.)

As for the quote you have from The Nation that I kept in; I truly fear for your immortal soul and what you view as reality due to it. Because it's an attempt to excuse the murder of millions of Natives, the repeated violation of treaties to seize more land and often resulting in the deaths of innocents, etc. Yes, we're now linked by rail and road, we have modern medicine, but those things, much like the deaths the quote trivializes, should be looked at in the entire context of the history of the United States. To celebrate our accomplishments, we must also acknowledge the horrors.

To paraphrase our atheist friends as to your final point...how about how the USA vs. USSR compare to the God we worship? He wiped out the entire world if we go by the Bible.

Need to think of a witty signature.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Shai Hulud's post
17-08-2017, 09:45 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
I think Christopher Hitchens was a jerk and not nearly as smart as he thought he was. He's a good example of the "smarmy atheist" very unpleasant type of person.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
18-08-2017, 12:32 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(17-08-2017 09:45 PM)Angra Mainyu Wrote:  I think Christopher Hitchens was a jerk and not nearly as smart as he thought he was. He's a good example of the "smarmy atheist" very unpleasant type of person.

Says the clown who calls people cunts at the least provocation. Yeah, you're really convincing. Dodgy

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like morondog's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: