How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
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24-08-2017, 10:46 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(13-08-2017 07:25 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(13-08-2017 01:23 AM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Then again, why weren't so many Atheist leaders "GOOD WITHOUT GOD"?

Why are so many theist leaders not good even with god? Should we start listing prominent believers who have done or made calls for absolutely disgusting actions? It is likely to be a long list.

Nevermind... just keep arguing your strawman version of atheism.

Again, reframing the question, and then avoiding it. Nice dodge. However, you're admitting Atheists are no better than Christians, OK.
The difference is, Christians have the teachings of Jesus to guide them, and if they
fail to follow those teachings, it's their failure, not Christianity's. If an Athiest fails
to be moral, their whole belief system that they can be "Good Without God"
through reason alone fails.

Norm: "An unwritten rule that underlies and inherent in the fabric of society."
More: "An unwritten, but generally known, rule that governs serious
violations of the social code."
Morals: "Ethical principles, or principles meant to guide human conduct and
behavior; principles or standards of right and wrong."
Deviant Behavior: "Violations of both mores and norms are forms of
deviance called "deviant behavior" ."
Natural Law: "The rules of conduct inherent in human nature and on the
natural order, which are thought to be knowable through intuition, inspiration,
and the exercise of reason without the need to refer to man-made laws
(Inherently Known)"
https://quizlet.com/9021574/criminal-law...ash-cards/

Atheists have the same Natural Law that Christians have, but claim that all they
need to be "Good Without God" is their reason. Thus when an Atheists violate the
law, they show that their Reason is not sufficient, and that their Claim to be
"Good Without God" is false.

Look at Hicks as a recent example.

I find your imaginary version of Atheism interesting. It's full of Faith.
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24-08-2017, 10:53 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(24-08-2017 10:46 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  
(13-08-2017 07:25 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Why are so many theist leaders not good even with god? Should we start listing prominent believers who have done or made calls for absolutely disgusting actions? It is likely to be a long list.

Nevermind... just keep arguing your strawman version of atheism.

Again, reframing the question, and then avoiding it. Nice dodge. However, you're admitting Atheists are no better than Christians, OK.
The difference is, Christians have the teachings of Jesus to guide them, and if they
fail to follow those teachings, it's their failure, not Christianity's. If an Athiest fails
to be moral, their whole belief system that they can be "Good Without God"
through reason alone fails.

Norm: "An unwritten rule that underlies and inherent in the fabric of society."
More: "An unwritten, but generally known, rule that governs serious
violations of the social code."
Morals: "Ethical principles, or principles meant to guide human conduct and
behavior; principles or standards of right and wrong."
Deviant Behavior: "Violations of both mores and norms are forms of
deviance called "deviant behavior" ."
Natural Law: "The rules of conduct inherent in human nature and on the
natural order, which are thought to be knowable through intuition, inspiration,
and the exercise of reason without the need to refer to man-made laws
(Inherently Known)"
https://quizlet.com/9021574/criminal-law...ash-cards/

Atheists have the same Natural Law that Christians have, but claim that all they
need to be "Good Without God" is their reason. Thus when an Atheists violate the
law, they show that their Reason is not sufficient, and that their Claim to be
"Good Without God" is false.

Look at Hicks as a recent example.

I find your imaginary version of Atheism interesting. It's full of Faith.

You are babbling, and you know fuck all about atheism.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-08-2017, 05:41 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(24-08-2017 10:46 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Again, reframing the question, and then avoiding it. Nice dodge.

It was an attempt to get you to see how poorly framed your questions are.

You continually point out specific atheists who did abhorrent things and use that to refute the "good without god" slogan. It shows either a basic misunderstanding of what that means or a willful misrepresentation of it. Given that many responses have pointed out the problem, I have to assume the latter and that you are just another Liar For Jesus™.

I'll try to make it simple:
Not believing in god does not make you good.
Not believing in god does not make you bad.
Believing in god does not make you good.
Believing in god does not make you bad.
You can be a decent person and not believe.
You can be a vile person and not believe.
You can be a decent person and believe.
You can be a vile person and believe.

The slogan "good without god" only means that, contrary to the claims of many religious people, you do not need a god to have morals and lead a decent life. It is NOT the claim that you WILL be good without god or that you can't be good with god.

Now take your fucking strawman and go away.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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25-08-2017, 07:24 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(24-08-2017 10:46 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  
(13-08-2017 07:25 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Why are so many theist leaders not good even with god? Should we start listing prominent believers who have done or made calls for absolutely disgusting actions? It is likely to be a long list.

Nevermind... just keep arguing your strawman version of atheism.

Again, reframing the question, and then avoiding it. Nice dodge. However, you're admitting Atheists are no better than Christians, OK.
The difference is, Christians have the teachings of Jesus to guide them, and if they
fail to follow those teachings, it's their failure, not Christianity's. If an Athiest fails
to be moral, their whole belief system that they can be "Good Without God"
through reason alone fails.

Norm: "An unwritten rule that underlies and inherent in the fabric of society."
More: "An unwritten, but generally known, rule that governs serious
violations of the social code."
Morals: "Ethical principles, or principles meant to guide human conduct and
behavior; principles or standards of right and wrong."
Deviant Behavior: "Violations of both mores and norms are forms of
deviance called "deviant behavior" ."
Natural Law: "The rules of conduct inherent in human nature and on the
natural order, which are thought to be knowable through intuition, inspiration,
and the exercise of reason without the need to refer to man-made laws
(Inherently Known)"
https://quizlet.com/9021574/criminal-law...ash-cards/

Atheists have the same Natural Law that Christians have, but claim that all they
need to be "Good Without God" is their reason. Thus when an Atheists violate the
law, they show that their Reason is not sufficient, and that their Claim to be
"Good Without God" is false.

Look at Hicks as a recent example.

I find your imaginary version of Atheism interesting. It's full of Faith.

I find it hard to believe that you are that naive.

'Can' be good without a divinity does not equal 'will' be good without a divinity.

Indeed, the same natural laws apply to all. Natural laws include killing to stay alive so what does that prove?

My favourite teaching of your Jesus relates to hypocrisy ... he who is without sin etc.

What I particularly like about it is that Jesus never said it and christianity has adopted it from the real world.

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