How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
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08-10-2017, 07:30 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
A thread form 2012 surfaces.

A new low.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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08-10-2017, 11:31 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(06-10-2017 11:02 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  
(25-08-2017 07:24 AM)DLJ Wrote:  My favourite teaching of your Jesus relates to hypocrisy ... he who is without sin etc.

What I particularly like about it is that Jesus never said it and christianity has adopted it from the real world.

Thumbsup

Facepalm
Really? You're that prejudice against Christians that you'll make that claim? Did you claim that because you're ignorant or lying?
It was NOT, "adopted it from the real world." It is a summation of the actual verse:
"When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” "
John 8:7


That other Atheists on this forum do not care about the lies and misrepresentations of Christianity
on this form is one more sign of what I'm talking about. If someone talks ill about Atheists,
oh it's just hateful, but if someone does it about Christians,
it's just par for the course.

I just needed to interject here. Hi, I'm also a theist (but no, we're not natural allies).

Talking to Christians is tedious and often turns hostile. So many Christians want to live in their own bubble and deny or flat out ignore the views and positions of the rest of the world. The most religious of them (who are the loudest) lack the education to be capable of speaking to people from different cultures on their own levels, and this renders them ineffective. They become aggressive and defensive when their message fails to resonate, and then they turn to censorship to scrub out dissenting voices.

These are the attributes that many non-Christians attribute to Christianity, and it is not a problem that can ever be solved if the Christians don't recognize the flaws within their own community and start addressing them.

While you are here on this forum, may I recommend (as one theist to another) that you spend some time actually getting to know the atheists here and maybe shy way from the over-generalizing them. Please try to recognize that the reason that you are being generalized is because so far, you're acting exactly like every other poorly behaved Christian does who comes to this forum spewing hatred and intolerance to those who think differently from themselves. Like it or not, you are now the current voice of Christianity to everyone here (myself included) who do not interact with your people on a regular basis.

Make a good impression, meet the locals on their level (you are here to talk to them, not the other way around), and you should be able to have productive conversations.
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08-10-2017, 01:57 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(08-10-2017 07:30 AM)Banjo Wrote:  A thread form 2012 surfaces.

A new low.

It was necro’d a while back. It’s not like it just happened.

Meh...Drinking Beverage


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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08-10-2017, 02:06 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(08-10-2017 11:31 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Hi, I'm also a theist (but no, we're not natural allies).

And I'm his fellow Christian, but he and I are also hardly natural allies. Drinking Beverage I forget, didn't he say my brand of Christianity is an evil false religion or something? It's been a while and may be confusing the different trolls. Laugh out load Edit: Wait, checked his rep, he's the one who kept insisting I had to be an atheist because no Christian would ever disagree with him.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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10-10-2017, 11:51 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(06-08-2017 01:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 12:56 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  With Atheism, mass-murder is not immoral, it's just a rational choice. You can choose to commit it, or you can choose not to. Either is permitted because one Atheist cannot force their moral precepts on another; they don't have a warrant to do so.

Since you're not an atheist, and since despite your strenuous attempts to imply that we have religious texts and religious leaders, we do not have either of these things, maybe you should hold off on telling us what our position on any topic is?

As in why the fuck do you evangelical fuckwits always come storming in here and tell us shit about ourselves? Facepalm *I* know my moral beliefs, you don't.

You are in fact completely incorrect. Religion is not required in order for mass-murder and other crimes to be outlawed, or even as a logical basis for such laws. It's perfectly fine for us to make laws based on consensus through democratic institutions such as parliament/congress etc. A majority of atheists, as with any majority of pragmatic humans interested in getting along and moving society forward, will recognise that outlawing stupid shit like killing huge numbers of people is a bright idea ™.

That's right, Atheists have no moral law. Atheism is amoral. They have opinions,
this way or that, but that is all they are: OPINIONS. Atheists cannot state
unequivocally that Lenin, Stalin, Mao, etc. were wrong - in regards to anything.
The strongest thing you claim is in your opinion they were wrong. And opinions are like what... and they all stink.

Maybe you should hold off on telling Christians what our position is on any topic is. As in why do bigotted Atheists always stomp around spreading lies and hate about religious people and their beliefs? Facepalm *I* know my moral beliefs, you don't.

Yes, it is perfectly fine for you to make laws based on consensus through democratic institutions such as parliament/congress, etc. BUT too often they have not made any difference. The USSR, PRC, and most other Atheist nation had parliaments, congresses or legislative bodies of one type or another. They did NOT make a difference. They rode roughshod of people's Human Rights, and Non-Marxist Atheists have NOT taken your fellow Marxist Atheists to task for their actions.

There is no book titled "The Marxist Delusion,"
There is no book titled "The End of Marxism,"
There is no book titled "Marx Is Not Great: How Marxism Poisons Everything."
There are such books written about religion. Right-wing Atheists show favoritism
to Marxists because they are Fellow Atheists, and to criticize fellow Atheists would
show Atheism's fatal weakness: no consensus on right/wrong, good/evil.

And the fact are facts:
"In fact there are no reliable connections – whether in logic or history – between atheism, science and liberal values. When organised as a movement and backed by the power of the state, atheist ideologies have been an integral part of despotic regimes that also claimed to be based in science, such as the former Soviet Union. Many rival moralities and political systems – most of them, to date, illiberal – have attempted to assert a basis in science. All have been fraudulent and ephemeral. Yet the attempt continues in atheist movements today, which claim that liberal values can be scientifically validated and are therefore humanly universal."
-atheist author John Gray
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m...w-atheists

My quote of Hitchens stands. It is an indisputable fact:
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/...z4jq6qE0X6
https://thehumanist.com/news/hnn/saving-...secularism

(06-08-2017 01:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  A majority of atheists, as with any majority of pragmatic humans interested in getting along and moving society forward, will recognise that outlawing stupid shit like killing huge numbers of people is a bright idea ™
Tell that to those who cleared out Tiananmen Square, and their government that ordered it.

(06-08-2017 01:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  Anyway, for a guy who condemns mass murder, are you aware of all the times in the Bible where God specifically orders genocide? Pretty awkward for your argument eh?
Yes, your tu quoque argument is quite awkward.
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11-10-2017, 12:04 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
Whoever did this, I hope you're proud of yourselves Dodgy

ETA: My bad. Thought that in the midst of all the necro'ing someone summoned this thing inadvertently. Apparently it summoned itself Dodgy

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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11-10-2017, 12:53 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
In my opinion it is not acceptable, by noone, under no circumstances to kill every living thing on the planet. Drinking Beverage

How about you? You have a law? A law you have to follow, regardless if you think its right or wrong? So what does your law say about killing every living thing on the planet? Any exceptions from that rule maybe, for specific persons or entities? Whats your opinion about this? Opps, sorry, disregard that, your opinion is irrelevant, since its a law, and you have to follow, right?

For someone who cant publicly make moral evaluations related to basic human decency without exposing his moral *framework* as completely corrupt you are tossing quite a lot of stones around in this glass house (no pun intended with regards to climate change discussion Tongue ).

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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11-10-2017, 12:54 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(06-08-2017 08:40 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  That's actually a pretty well said reason that we shouldn't ever blindly trust other people. We're all just apes, after all.

Atheism has no better humanist value than religion if history is our guide. That can be effectively argued, of course, so can the converse of that argument.

So after all of that on and on, you have successfully argued that people can be shitty. Good for you.

What is your point?
[emphasis added]
- That you should NOT claim that Atheists are the gold standard of morality.
- That you should be honest about Christians and Christianity. I've heard nothing but bigotry from Atheists: "How Religion Destroys a Civilization"? No. You are talking about Islam, not "religion." BE HONEST. As for the "Dark Ages:" After about 7 or 8 nomadic tribes raped and pillaged there way thru the Roman Empire Christianity had to rebuild civilization from smoke and ashes with those very tribes. If you've seen anything about the Roman Empire
https://www.google.com/search?q=shows+ab...yL2NGFV2Bc

It's been sterilized of the "nasty, brutish and short" truth. The Barbarian invasion only made it worse.

After that, Christianity worked a wonder civilizing Europe for which we get trashed and lied about. One Atheist here posted pictures of torture and the Crusades on this forum. No mention was made about how rare torture was compared to the Romans (Or Soviet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainiai_massacre, or PRC: http://www.ishr.org/countries/peoples-re...of-china/) times. The Crusades?! Really? After about 450 yrs. of raids, attacks and invasion by Islam and you complain about failed counter attacks? Really? Look at the fullest extent of the Islamic invasion of Europe. Would you REALLY want Islam to be ruling you right now?

And don't forget the American Barbary Wars.

Meanwhile, you give your fellow Marxist-Atheists the equivalent of a "Get Out Of Jail Free" card after more than a Century of violence and Death that you cannot even bring yourself to talk about. Censored

If you're going to trash anyone it should be your fellow Marxist-Atheists who - given your praise of Atheism and Rationalism - should have know better.

What do I want? For you to have - and express - some honest, objective perspective.
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11-10-2017, 01:06 AM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2017 01:11 AM by FarSeeker.)
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(11-10-2017 12:53 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  In my opinion it is not acceptable, by noone, under no circumstances to kill every living thing on the planet. Drinking Beverage

How about you? You have a law? A law you have to follow, regardless if you think its right or wrong? So what does your law say about killing every living thing on the planet? Any exceptions from that rule maybe, for specific persons or entities? Whats your opinion about this? Opps, sorry, disregard that, your opinion is irrelevant, since its a law, and you have to follow, right?

For someone who cant publicly make moral evaluations related to basic human decency without exposing his moral *framework* as completely corrupt you are tossing quite a lot of stones around in this glass house (no pun intended with regards to climate change discussion Tongue ).

For people who can't publicly make moral evaluations related to basic human decency:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_q...arker+rape
https://www.google.com/search?q=soviet+t...u6oXZ5F48s
https://www.google.com/search?q=prc+tort...mMjIzUw6EA

Do Atheists have anywhere to stand?
"[A]s T.S. Eliot puts it, 'If you will not have God (and he is a jealous God) you should pay your respects to Hitler or Stalin.' "
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11-10-2017, 01:31 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
Yet another poor soul who doesn't understand the difference between atheism and nihilism.

On the up-side, I suppose homeschooling saves the taxpayer a few bucks.

Smile

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