How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
04-08-2017, 04:33 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(04-08-2017 02:33 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 12:56 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Only if you leave out the rest of what he said:
"I am not even an atheist so much as an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth,
but I hold that the influence of churches and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful." C. Hitchens
---

"One of Lenin's great achievements, in my opinion, is to create a secular Russia."
Christopher Hitchens
*Why is Hitchens so proud of Lenin?*
"The Communist Party destroyed churches, mosques and temples, ridiculed, harassed, incarcerated and executed religious leaders, ..." - Wikipedia.
---

"I'm not going to love them. You go love them if you want. Don't love them on my behalf.
I'll get on with killing them, destroying them, erasing them.
And you can love them. But the idea that you ought to love them is not a moral idea at all. It's a wicked idea." C. Hitchens
---

Christian Radio Host: “Well, I wanted to make it quite clear in our closing moments to you,
Christopher, I don't consider you an enemy, I don't consider you, uh”

Christopher Hitchens: “Well, I'm very sorry to hear that."

Radio Host: “I know, because you want me to be your enemy.”

*Hitchens: “Well, no, excuse me, you are my enemy.”*

Radio Host: “Well, you're not my enemy.”

Hitchens: “How do you figure that?”

Radio Host: “No, because I don't feel the need to have to silence you, Christopher Hitchens.”

Hitchens: “Well, you don't have a chance of doing that. I don't mean that at all,
I mean your preachments are evil and are a direct threat to the survival of civilization.
If you don't consider me an enemy, then you don't know an enemy when you see or hear one.”

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...Day?page=2
---
I think the enemies of civilisation should be beaten and killed and defeated, and I don’t make any apology for it…
We can’t live on the same planet as them, and I’m glad because I don’t want to.
I don’t want to breathe the same air as these psychopaths and murderers…
It’s them or me. I’m very happy about this because I know it will be them.”
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2014/09/fiel...nt-review/
---
[snip]

Holy necro batman!

You made an account to post in a thread from 2012?

Meh...whatever...

Wow! Responding to the call, by a leading "New Atheist," to mass-murder religious people with:
"Meh...whatever..."

Cold, lady, just. plain. cold.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
04-08-2017, 06:18 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
At work.

Hello FarSeeker! Big Grin

From reading your posts, you seem to wish painting a person like myself with a Christopher Hitchen's sized brush? Consider

Mr Hitchen's said many things I agree with and I think he got right.

He also said many things I disagree and many things I think he simply got wrong.

So... perhaps you'd like to engage with the many stripes/colors/types of nonbelievers here abouts?

Rather than invoking the ghost of Hitchen's past?

Thumbsup
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Peebothuhul's post
04-08-2017, 06:26 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(04-08-2017 04:33 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Wow! Responding to the call, by a leading "New Atheist," to mass-murder religious people with:
"Meh...whatever..."

Cold, lady, just. plain. cold.

FarSeeker, Hitchens wrote A TON and spoke A TON MORE. He was witty and didn't bother censoring himself. Probably (to his credit) he spoke at lectures and debates with a healthy buzz. His "political correctness" phaser was permanently set to "off." He liked tweaking peoples' noses; he appears, from the grave, to have been able to tweak your whole body. Congrats to you, for pulling your precious handful of "Hitchens as mass murderer" quotes. If it warms your heart to think of him that way, carry on, I think the rest of us will remember a sensitive and articulate warrior for free speech, free thought, and liberty for all. Shame on you for slandering him.

[Climbs down off high horse]

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like jerry mcmasters's post
04-08-2017, 06:47 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(04-08-2017 04:33 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 02:33 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Holy necro batman!

You made an account to post in a thread from 2012?

Meh...whatever...

Wow! Responding to the call, by a leading "New Atheist," to mass-murder religious people with:
"Meh...whatever..."

Cold, lady, just. plain. cold.

Would you prefer "shoo, fly"?

Because I could say that too.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Momsurroundedbyboys's post
04-08-2017, 07:20 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(04-08-2017 04:33 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Wow! Responding to the call, by a leading "New Atheist," to mass-murder religious people with:
"Meh...whatever..."

Cold, lady, just. plain. cold.


Oh let me play this game too! Pat Robertson isn't a fan of my denomination, so let's see:

How about the time Pat said that Evangelicals in America were the most persecuted minority in human history?
Quote:"Just like what Nazi Germany did to the Jews, so liberal America is now doing to the evangelical Christians. It's no different. It is the same thing. It is happening all over again. It is the Democratic Congress, the liberal-based media and the homosexuals who want to destroy the Christians.

Wholesale abuse and discrimination and the worst bigotry directed toward any group in America today. More terrible than anything suffered by any minority in history." –Pat Robertson

How about when Pat invoked death and destruction upon Disney for hosting Gay Days?

Quote:"I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you, This is not a message of hate -- this is a message of redemption. But a condition like this will bring about the destruction of your nation. It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor." –Pat Robertson, on "gay days" at Disneyworld

Maybe Pat was better about feminism...nope.

Quote:"(T)he feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." –Pat Robertson

What was it Pat said again when Israel's Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, suffered a massive stroke and was left in a comatose state until he died?

Quote:"God considers this land to be his. You read the Bible and he says 'This is my land,' and for any prime minister of Israel who decides he is going to carve it up and give it away, God says, 'No, this is mine.' ...

He was dividing God's land. And I would say, 'Woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the E.U., the United Nations, or the United States of America.' God says, 'This land belongs to me. You better leave it alone.'"

How did Pat Robertson feel about the State Department at one point? Oh yes, he hoped for a dropping of a thermonuclear device on U.S. soil, and all the collateral casualties it would cause in addition to the people he wished death upon!

Quote:"Maybe we need a very small nuke thrown off on Foggy Bottom to shake things up"

What did he say again about Venezuela's former (late) President Hugo Chavez again?

Quote:"You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."

What compassionate Christian reply did Pat Robertson give to the people of Haiti after a 2010 earthquake devastated the nation and killed tens of thousands of innocent people?

Quote:"It may be a blessing in disguise. ... Something happened a long time ago in Haiti, and people might not want to talk about it. Haitians were originally under the heel of the French.

You know, Napoleon the third, or whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the devil. They said, we will serve you if you will get us free from the French. True story. And so, the devil said, okay it's a deal. Ever since they have been cursed by one thing after the other."

What about if a man cheats on his wife, what was Pat's response?

Quote:"Like it or not, males have a tendency to wander a little bit. What you want to do is make a home so wonderful that he doesn’t want to wander."

How about the time he said that judges are worse than the 9/11 attacks?

Quote:"Over 100 years, I think the gradual erosion of the consensus that's held our country together is probably more serious than a few bearded terrorists who fly into buildings."

How about his response to the late Jerry Falwell Sr.'s comments that 9/11 was because of feminists, LGBT people, the ACLU and abortion?
Quote:"Well, I totally concur."

How about a man who has an Alzheimer's stricken wife? Did he extol upon that man the natures of Christian compassion and love?

Quote:"I know it sounds cruel, but if he's going to do something, he should divorce her and start all over again, but to make sure she has custodial care and somebody (is) looking after her."

How about just LGBT people in general?
Quote:"Many of those people involved in Adolf Hitler were Satanists. Many were homosexuals. The two things seem to go together."

How about his comments about non-Christians in America in general? Surely it was...wait, it was the same sort of language that the Hutus used about the Tutsis in the leadup to the Rwandan genocide by dehumanizing others?

Quote:"It is interesting, that termites don't build things, and the great builders of our nation almost to a man have been Christians, because Christians have the desire to build something. He is motivated by love of man and God, so he builds. The people who have come into [our] institutions [today] are primarily termites. They are into destroying institutions that have been built by Christians, whether it is universities, governments, our own traditions, that we have... The termites are in charge now, and that is not the way it ought to be, and the time has arrived for a godly fumigation."

What about the "wrong" kind of Christians?

Quote:"You say you're supposed to be nice to the Episcopalians and the Presbyterians and the Methodists and this, that, and the other thing. Nonsense. I don't have to be nice to the spirit of the Antichrist."

How about his opinions regarding convicted war criminal Charles Taylor, who committed murder, rape, slavery, and used child soldiers? What did he say when the US put diplomatic pressure on the man to step down?

Quote:"We're undermining a Christian, Baptist president to bring in Muslim rebels to take over the country. And how dare the president of the United States say to the duly elected president of another country, 'You've got to step down."

On having met Charles Taylor, whom Robertson had a "Mineral Development Agreement" contract with.
Quote:"I have never met Taylor in my life. I don't know what he has done or hasn't done. I do know he was elected by the people, and he has maintained a relatively stable government in Liberia; and they observe the rule of law; they have a working legislature; they have courts. And though he may have certain dictatorial powers, so do most leaders in Africa."


Now these are just quotes, not counting things like his blood diamonds in Africa and such. But if we're to paint our atheist compatriots with a Hitchens sized brush for a handful of things he said over a long career, should they too paint us with a Robertson sized brush, saying that Christians want to assassinate political leaders, nuke the United States of America, say that Disney should suffer terrorist attacks on innocent families, that adultery is okay as long as it's the man that does it because it's in his nature, divorce sick spouses, support war criminals who use slaves and child soldiers, etc. I could go on, but I think I've made my point about cherry picking a few things a person has said to paint an entire group.

Need to think of a witty signature.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Shai Hulud's post
05-08-2017, 12:08 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(04-08-2017 12:56 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  With Atheism, mass-murder is not immoral, it's just a rational choice. You can choose to commit it, or you can choose not to. Either is permitted because one Atheist cannot force their moral precepts on another; they don't have a warrant to do so.

Please give your definition of atheism.
Please show how not believing any god claim is related to morality.
Please explain how the big flood (killing all babies in egypt, all Canaanites, etc, pp.) is not mass murder.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Deesse23's post
06-08-2017, 03:05 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(04-08-2017 06:18 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

From reading your posts, you seem to wish painting a person like myself with a Christopher Hitchen's sized brush? Consider

Mr Hitchen's said many things I agree with and I think he got right.

He also said many things I disagree and many things I think he simply got wrong.

So... perhaps you'd like to engage with the many stripes/colors/types of nonbelievers here abouts?

Rather than invoking the ghost of Hitchen's past?

Wow! Reframing and hijacking the subject of my post,
nice try. Dodgy

The claim was that there is no tyranny in C. Hitchens' stand:
Chas:
"Enemy, yes. Totalitarian, no."
I posted to disagree with that.
But so be it.

When Atheists advocates mass-murder (after having done a great deal of it) and the subject is brought up, it's "invoking ghosts," but when talking about Christians, it's "how they destroy civilization." Facepalm What next, Oh King of the Double-Standard.

Unfortunately, this isn't a position held solely by C. Hitchens, but is endemic in the Atheist movement, see my quote from Russel and the following about another “New Atheist" (by Atheists):

"And that’s what we’ve got. We’ve got Slippery Sam Harris cooly talking about torture and nuclear bombings and racial profiling, all with a molecule-thin veneer of deniability to allow him to deny, while drawing in fans who have no problem with racism and war. We had Christopher Hitchens who…let me tell you about a recent argument over Hitchens. It shows how little reality matters to so many of our fellow atheists."
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/...z4ouzMCpR7
[As for the Freethought blogs: Yes folks, there are a few Atheists who "get it", just not you!]

With support for Hitchens from many Atheists:
http://imgur.com/gallery/92XviAC

and then:

http://www.azquotes.com/quote/1247287
http://quotesjunk.com/i-can-make-the-arg...-jillette/

Along with objective refutation:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/mu...-1.2110661

While some Atheists are "getting it," others like yourself are utterly oblivious to the Authoritarian aspects among fellow Atheists. While Atheists utterly LOVE painting Christians with the Nazi swastika, they claim that Marxists were "no True Atheists," because of some technicality, all the while calling the self-proclaimed Marxist C. Hitchens a “New Atheist.”

OTOH, some claim that those Atheists don't represent the majority of Atheists. That is a duplicitous claim because they do not allow the same to be said of those claiming to be Christians. Equally duplicitous is the fact that Christianity has specific teachings, while Atheism has none. So while e.g. Hitler violated numerous teachings of Christianity, Lenin and cohorts violated nothing of Atheism, even to the point of doing what they found Reasonable and Rational. If you do take that position, so be it, but you then have the problem of proving your view is rationally and morally superior to that of Hitchens, Lenin and cohorts. Those types of arguments always end in he-said-she-said arguments and go nowhere.

The point is not whether you disagree with C. Hitchens. Your problem is the triple whammy of you having to prove 1) your opinion is correct, 2) why and how a superior Atheist intellect as C. Hitchens, Harris and Bertrand Russell could get it so exceedingly wrong, and 3) why no one had the courage to challenged him while he was alive and able to respond. I mean challenging Hitchens now that he's dead is kind of a cowardly and jerk (I am being polite here) move.

Atheists have made it a dogma of theirs that Christians have done bad things in the past; all the while ignoring the details to gain points with their polemics (e.g. The Crusades: As if 450 yrs of attacks ain't enough provocation for you?! They didn't conquer everything from Mecca to Spain by going door-to-door).

Those Atheists who weren't Marxists or Marx supporters were all but silent while the Marxist nations around the world oppressed and committed atrocities. While Christians in those nations suffered, Atheists metaphorically fiddled. This continues today while your fellow Atheists in China abuse the Human Rights of religious people.

It's an unwritten Atheist Rule: anytime anyone claiming to be a Christian does evil, it is an imputation against Christianity, nothing Good done by Christians can be ascribed to Christianity. While at the same time, anything Bad done by an Atheist cannot be an imputation to Atheism, while everything good done by Atheists can be ascribed to Atheism. It's a blatant and bigoted double-standard

If C. Hitchens' opinion of what is moral and not moral doesn't matter, then why does yours? Consider
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2017, 03:14 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(04-08-2017 07:20 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  [quote='FarSeeker' pid='1222905' dateline='1501885992']

Oh let me play this game too! Pat Robertson isn't a fan of my denomination, so let's see:
[cut]

Facepalm
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is an Atheist using a "Gish Gallop."
Dodgy Such a wonder of hypocrisy it is.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2017, 04:13 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(05-08-2017 12:08 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 12:56 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  With Atheism, mass-murder is not immoral, it's just a rational choice. You can choose to commit it, or you can choose not to. Either is permitted because one Atheist cannot force their moral precepts on another; they don't have a warrant to do so.

Please give your definition of atheism.
Please show how not believing any god claim is related to morality.
Please explain how the big flood (killing all babies in egypt, all Canaanites, etc, pp.) is not mass murder.

Ah, a "Tu quoque" fallacy. Chancy, but likely the only line of argument available as the Holodomor, Katyn Forrest, the "Killing Fields" and Tiananmen Sq. really don't leave you much room to maneuver.
1) There are these books, called "dictionaries" that tell you what a word means. They can be found in places called "libraries." Look for the nearest in the phone book.

2) I did that above in my post about C. Hitchens. If so many Atheists cannot maintain a morality up to your standards, there must be something they're missing. That is, unless you agree with Hitchens.

3) The Bible explains The Flood and its reason explicitly. I don't need to explain any further to a person who can read: Genesis 6:5.
The Bible does not say babies, only first born: Exodus 11:5. My brother is a first born and over 50 yrs old. Do try to do a little research before posting about the dogma you've been indoctrinated with.
Canaanites,? see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-08-2017, 04:23 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(04-08-2017 06:26 PM)jerry mcmasters Wrote:  ...I think the rest of us will remember a sensitive and articulate warrior for free speech, free thought, and liberty for all. Shame on you for slandering him.

[Climbs down off high horse]

Oh dear. Sadcryface
I've insulted your prophet! Blasphemy!

Free thought supporter that he was, He was willing to kill those who didn't think like him!

I've slandered him with his own words! Weeping
And used quotes from your fellow Atheists at FreeThought Blogs to do it ...

How utterly evil of me!
NOT. Cool
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: