How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
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07-08-2017, 10:46 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(06-08-2017 04:13 AM)FarSeeker Wrote:  Ah, a "Tu quoque" fallacy. Chancy, but likely the only line of argument available as the Holodomor, Katyn Forrest, the "Killing Fields" and Tiananmen Sq. really don't leave you much room to maneuver.
1) There are these books, called "dictionaries" that tell you what a word means. They can be found in places called "libraries." Look for the nearest in the phone book.

2) I did that above in my post about C. Hitchens. If so many Atheists cannot maintain a morality up to your standards, there must be something they're missing. That is, unless you agree with Hitchens.

3) The Bible explains The Flood and its reason explicitly. I don't need to explain any further to a person who can read: Genesis 6:5.
The Bible does not say babies, only first born: Exodus 11:5. My brother is a first born and over 50 yrs old. Do try to do a little research before posting about the dogma you've been indoctrinated with.
Canaanites,? see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

3) So basically, because god did it, it's cool.

What a bunch of horseshit.
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07-08-2017, 10:55 AM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2017 11:20 AM by Cosmo.)
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)








I'm not so sure that farseeker is giving an accurate portrayal of these people's views in the first place. I feel like they're being misconstrued. Not saying I agree or disagree, but here's what they think from their own mouths.

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07-08-2017, 11:10 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(06-08-2017 01:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  As in why the fuck do you evangelical fuckwits always come storming in here and tell us shit about ourselves? Facepalm *I* know my moral beliefs, you don't.

Actually, I think this may be the big question. If he honestly and truly believes that he's carrying out the command of Christ in the Great Commission, then he would be trying to do so with some sort of humility or desperation that your soul not be cast into eternal hellfire. I remember laying awake at night as a Baptist youth, so upset about the fate of those who didn't know Jesus. I remember wondering why God would cast those who didn't ever hear of the Trinity, into torment, and such. I remember it not sitting right that many of those around me were practically masturbating at the thought of the Rapture, because apparently 'fuck everyone else, I want my reward now'.

So when someone like FarSeeker shows up and their first action is to be combative, I begin to assume it's not about spreading the Good News. Rather it's a form of ego-stroking self-congratulatory theological masturbation. He can say he went into the den of evil atheists and fought the Devil for their souls, but their hearts were hardened by the Evil One, and despite his best efforts, he failed. All without acknowledging his entire style is provacatory in nature, and not designed in the slightest to engender dialogue.

So if you don't mind, FarSeeker, why did you come in and go straight into a fight rather than into trying to explain your belief in the Lord? Because I'm at a loss, just as Morondog is, about why American Evangelicals tend to storm in here with an adversarial bent to their visit. Is it that ego thing? Is it because American Evangelicalism has embraced a very militaristic line of thought in its beliefs, and that you view yourself as a warrior engaged in Spiritual Warfare?

Also just for an aside; do you hate your mother and father? I have a Biblical reason for asking.

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07-08-2017, 11:22 AM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(07-08-2017 11:10 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(06-08-2017 01:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  As in why the fuck do you evangelical fuckwits always come storming in here and tell us shit about ourselves? Facepalm *I* know my moral beliefs, you don't.

Actually, I think this may be the big question. If he honestly and truly believes that he's carrying out the command of Christ in the Great Commission, then he would be trying to do so with some sort of humility or desperation that your soul not be cast into eternal hellfire. I remember laying awake at night as a Baptist youth, so upset about the fate of those who didn't know Jesus. I remember wondering why God would cast those who didn't ever hear of the Trinity, into torment, and such. I remember it not sitting right that many of those around me were practically masturbating at the thought of the Rapture, because apparently 'fuck everyone else, I want my reward now'.

So when someone like FarSeeker shows up and their first action is to be combative, I begin to assume it's not about spreading the Good News. Rather it's a form of ego-stroking self-congratulatory theological masturbation. He can say he went into the den of evil atheists and fought the Devil for their souls, but their hearts were hardened by the Evil One, and despite his best efforts, he failed. All without acknowledging his entire style is provacatory in nature, and not designed in the slightest to engender dialogue.

So if you don't mind, FarSeeker, why did you come in and go straight into a fight rather than into trying to explain your belief in the Lord? Because I'm at a loss, just as Morondog is, about why American Evangelicals tend to storm in here with an adversarial bent to their visit. Is it that ego thing? Is it because American Evangelicalism has embraced a very militaristic line of thought in its beliefs, and that you view yourself as a warrior engaged in Spiritual Warfare?

Also just for an aside; do you hate your mother and father? I have a Biblical reason for asking.

I'm guessing the strategy is somewhat oblique. The idea is not to save *our* souls, but to expose us for the lying servants of Satan that we are, in order that the faithful be not led astray. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit for intelligence though.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-08-2017, 12:35 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(07-08-2017 11:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  I'm guessing the strategy is somewhat oblique. The idea is not to save *our* souls, but to expose us for the lying servants of Satan that we are, in order that the faithful be not led astray. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit for intelligence though.


Oh, gotta admit, that's an angle I'd not have considered!

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07-08-2017, 01:02 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(07-08-2017 12:35 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(07-08-2017 11:22 AM)morondog Wrote:  I'm guessing the strategy is somewhat oblique. The idea is not to save *our* souls, but to expose us for the lying servants of Satan that we are, in order that the faithful be not led astray. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit for intelligence though.


Oh, gotta admit, that's an angle I'd not have considered!

All part of the Liar for Jesus's toolbox. If you can post some seemingly innocuous (to believers) comment that makes people respond harshly because it's not so innocuous to an atheist, then you can basically trick people into looking to a Christian-who's-faith-is-wavering like what all those evangelical pastors tell them that atheists are - rabid unhinged "fallen" science-worshippers, so desperate to believe any absurd lie like evolution that they'll go into full attack mode when a believer asks a reasonable question.

There are other tools too. Long, detailed screeds that look like intellectual conversation, all in the service of supporting some demented statement, like the idea that atheists are one step away from being mass-murderers. If you're lucky you can get your opponent to respond also with a long detailed screed. Then it looks like you're having a most-highbrow argument dontcherknow, and you can throw in some insulting remarks at some point so that ye atheist loses the plot, and *then* you can scream "ad hominem!!!!"

This style of arguing is all about perception, not about actual truthful content.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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07-08-2017, 09:33 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(06-08-2017 04:37 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(04-08-2017 12:56 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  ...
With Atheism, mass-murder is not immoral, it's just a rational choice. You can choose to commit it, or you can choose not to. Either is permitted because one Atheist cannot force their moral precepts on another; they don't have a warrant to do so.

Methinks you are confusing atheism with moral nihilism.

Drinking Beverage

Is there really a difference. I keep running into "Dictionary Atheists." There seems to be one in the posts above that asked me what my definition of Atheism was. In my experience, that type of question leads to "all Atheism is the 'unbelief' in a deity." If that is all Atheism is, then there isn't Reeeeally much difference between it and nihilism.

Or is there a "Holy Book of Atheist Morals" that all Atheists must adhere to? I ask because there has been a whole hell of a lot of Atheists who have failed to hold any acceptable standard - and few who took them to task for not holding any. How many forums can you find me where "Secular Humanists" berate Marxists for how evil their philosophy and actions are. I mean, compared to those that do the same to Christians? Where's the "anti-Marxist" forum on "The Thinking Atheist" site?

I mean, REALLY! I have presented, with the agreement of those present, the words of a highly intelligent Atheist calling for the mass-killing of those he calls a threat to civilization. If intelligence is the only thing that you need to be "Good Without God," then what the hell happened to C. Hitchens? Shocking
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07-08-2017, 09:46 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(07-08-2017 10:55 AM)Cosmo Wrote:  [snip]
I'm not so sure that farseeker is giving an accurate portrayal of these people's views in the first place. I feel like they're being misconstrued. Not saying I agree or disagree, but here's what they think from their own mouths.

I have given the web published articles of TWO Atheist/Humanist websites. If you have an argument ... go talk to them; their addresses are in my original post:

https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/...z4jq6qE0X6

https://thehumanist.com/news/hnn/saving-...secularism

They have not left you any intelligent excuse to claim I "misconstrued" anything, and I think any such claim by you is a lame attempt to avoid seriously dealing with the problem they decry.
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07-08-2017, 10:03 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(07-08-2017 09:33 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  
(06-08-2017 04:37 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Methinks you are confusing atheism with moral nihilism.

Drinking Beverage

Is there really a difference.

Sure there is. Although one may lead to another.

Here's a little chart I knocked up based on Richard Shweder’s idea of three ethical or moral themes:

[Image: jt55de.jpg]

As you can see, rejection of the Divinity stuff does not automatically lead to immorality or amorality.

But personally, I don't think Shweder’s categories are sufficiently nuanced so I've taken the liberty of expanding on the idea:

[Image: kdr2v4.jpg]

Note that there's loads of potential messiness and death at a few of those extremes.

So, for example, Hitchens was staunchly anti-totalitarian (as are most people, of course). The trouble arises with how intolerant should one be to intolerance? Meaning, is it OK to destroy totalitarianism by force?

As a Marxist-Lennonist, I'd say no. Unless one's own boundaries are threatened.

A key factor is the unit of self-determination... person or group?

If group, the Russians are perfectly consistent in installing virus protection and preventing Scientology from causing contagion. Likewise the Chinese are consistent in using a quarantine approach by allowing only five officially sanctioned religious organizations.

(07-08-2017 09:33 PM)FarSeeker Wrote:  ...
How many forums can you find me where "Secular Humanists" berate Marxists for how evil their philosophy and actions are.[/b] I mean, compared to those that do the same to Christians? Where's the "anti-Marxist" forum on "The Thinking Atheist" site?
...

Why would there be an anti-Marxist forum on TTA?

Marx was right and Secular Humanists are pond-scum.

Drinking Beverage

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07-08-2017, 11:40 PM
RE: How Religion Destroys a Civilization (A Warning For The Present Day)
(07-08-2017 11:10 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(06-08-2017 01:57 PM)morondog Wrote:  As in why the fuck do you evangelical fuckwits always come storming in here and tell us shit about ourselves? Facepalm *I* know my moral beliefs, you don't.

Actually, I think this may be the big question. If he honestly and truly believes that he's carrying out the command of Christ in the Great Commission, then he would be trying to do so with some sort of humility or desperation that your soul not be cast into eternal hellfire.
[snip]

So when someone like FarSeeker shows up and their first action is to be combative, I begin to assume it's not about spreading the Good News. Rather it's a form of ego-stroking self-congratulatory theological masturbation. He can say he went into the den of evil atheists and fought the Devil for their souls, but their hearts were hardened by the Evil One, and despite his best efforts, he failed. All without acknowledging his entire style is provacatory in nature, and not designed in the slightest to engender dialogue.

So if you don't mind, FarSeeker, why did you come in and go straight into a fight rather than into trying to explain your belief in the Lord? Because I'm at a loss, just as Morondog is, about why American Evangelicals tend to storm in here with an adversarial bent to their visit. Is it that ego thing? Is it because American Evangelicalism has embraced a very militaristic line of thought in its beliefs, and that you view yourself as a warrior engaged in Spiritual Warfare?

Also just for an aside; do you hate your mother and father? I have a Biblical reason for asking.

1) I know from previous debates with Atheists how humility is dealt with, and the taunting has only begun, as Dawkins' call for "ridicule and show contempt" instead of discussion reveals.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/...Yk9dFWGOUk
I have talked with Atheists who claim Hitchens' and Dawkins words are the results of them being secretly Christians. What chance do I have of convincing any of them to my POV?

Atheist abuse of Christians will only get worse. I don't expect a fair dialog because you would give none. I am not trying to convert you as trying to avert or lessen the coming time of tribulations and make you cognizant of what you will be seeing. If you've read the Bible like you've claimed, you know the ending does not go well for Christians; you Atheists will delight in the murder of us, again, before God has to step in Himself. Maybe, once you see the abuse start up again, maybe you will look back and say with some understanding that I was right, and in doing so save some Christians from suffering. Maybe, even though vous never did so the first time.

2) Ah! The pseudo-psychic gets it wrong again. You need to practice you crap.... craft more. You have no idea what I'm thinking outside what I've told you. I don't discuss these postings with anyone. And I do find it wearying, but it's all I can do.

3) Read the words of not just Lenin, Stalin and Mao, but those of C. Hitchens, Harris, Silverman and Dawkins. The "adversarial bent" did not begin with me. A better question is why there is no "adversarial bent" in your discussions with Marxists. You talk disparagingly about Christians, but you have no problem with Leninism and Che worship.

How much of Hitchens statements have we really discussed here? None. You're avoiding the issue with a smug attitude because you don't want to deal with them.
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