How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
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18-08-2015, 01:45 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(18-08-2015 08:35 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You can have all the time you want in your random reactions but they lack the power to form life.
This is why you aren't understanding evolution.

I also think you may be a bit confused regarding "life"
In order to classify something as "life" it must meet certain criteria. When you get to the fringes of what is or isn't life you find that it is hazy. For some things, they meet some of the criteria of life but not all the criteria of life.

It is likely that evolution (or something similar) was in effect with pre-life structures. There was a random element and a non random element.

If you assume just random then you will come up with astronomical odds, if you factor in the "natural selection" given competition for limited resources then you will find that life is highly probable.
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19-08-2015, 02:14 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(18-08-2015 12:29 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 08:35 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  There are indeed countless billions of planets with opportunities. However, all life here including vent and seep life formed due to a wide variety of factors which taken together make the odds of life on any one planet infinitesimally small. Do you deny this?

No. The odds of life on any specific planet are extremely small.

Fortunately, there is something of an overabundance of candidates, considering the size of our universe, so it doesn't really matter too much.

(18-08-2015 08:35 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  There are thousands of proteins within life on Earth, and they all differ by the sequence of the amino acids on the polymer chain. You can have all the time you want in your random reactions but they lack the power to form life.

Is there any connection at all between those two sentences? I can't see one.

There isn't an overabundance of candidates since you are underestimating the relevance and lack of prevalence of the contributing factors.

Life has evidence of design including the simplest forms of life. You can more time--100 billion years if you like--but random life from simple chemicals will not occur.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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19-08-2015, 02:17 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(19-08-2015 02:14 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 12:29 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  No. The odds of life on any specific planet are extremely small.

Fortunately, there is something of an overabundance of candidates, considering the size of our universe, so it doesn't really matter too much.


Is there any connection at all between those two sentences? I can't see one.

There isn't an overabundance of candidates since you are underestimating the relevance and lack of prevalence of the contributing factors.

Life has evidence of design including the simplest forms of life. You can more time--100 billion years if you like--but random life from simple chemicals will not occur.

And that's just unsupportable assertion. So I think you may be fine with that if you like.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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19-08-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(19-08-2015 02:14 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Life has evidence of design including the simplest forms of life. You can more time--100 billion years if you like--but random life from simple chemicals will not occur.

Whew! I'm glad you just said that, without evidence or justification or anything! That clears everything right up! I'm so glad that you just baldly asserted something, I was getting worried that you might not have any support for your position!

Good thing "because I said so," is sufficient justification for positions now, right?
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19-08-2015, 03:20 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(19-08-2015 02:14 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  There isn't an overabundance of candidates since you are underestimating the relevance and lack of prevalence of the contributing factors.

I'm really not.

I don't think you understand how big the universe is.

(19-08-2015 02:14 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Life has evidence of design including the simplest forms of life.

No, it doesn't.

(19-08-2015 02:14 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You can more time--100 billion years if you like--but random life from simple chemicals will not occur.

Yes, it will.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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19-08-2015, 05:57 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
Nope, Q wins. He has stated that it cannot happen, he clearly KNOWS it cannot happen, and so all the scientists out there, toiling away in labs to show how it happens can all stop their research, now. Thank you, Q! You saved a lot of biochemists a lot of wasted time, effort, and money.

Is there a science lab version of a guy running into a newspaper print shop and yelling, "STOP THE PRESSES!!!"?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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19-08-2015, 06:09 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(18-08-2015 01:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I also think you may be a bit confused regarding "life". In order to classify something as "life" it must meet certain criteria. When you get to the fringes of what is or isn't life you find that it is hazy. For some things, they meet some of the criteria of life but not all the criteria of life.

Viruses, for example. Thumbsup

#sigh
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20-08-2015, 01:39 AM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(19-08-2015 02:14 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(18-08-2015 12:29 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  No. The odds of life on any specific planet are extremely small.

Fortunately, there is something of an overabundance of candidates, considering the size of our universe, so it doesn't really matter too much.


Is there any connection at all between those two sentences? I can't see one.

There isn't an overabundance of candidates since you are underestimating the relevance and lack of prevalence of the contributing factors.

Life has evidence of design including the simplest forms of life. You can more time--100 billion years if you like--but random life from simple chemicals will not occur.

That's a whole lot of unsubstantiated assertions. Those are your incredulous opinions; nothing more.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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20-08-2015, 07:46 AM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
Assertions I've made that none of you have yet refuted:

1. This is speculative in nature; scientists have been utterly unable to produce life in a laboratory environment.

2. More than just a handful of scientists have been on the job.

3. If scientists are successful in this endeavor, they have created life via intelligent design and it would remain to demonstrate how such might be done more randomly in less controlled conditions than a laboratory (Earth in a primal environment).

4. Natural laws regarding the tendency of things toward entropy and the tendency of collisions to produce either disorder (or particles and isotopes at more fundamental levels that are exceptionally short-lived) are just some of the factors that make what is being assumed highly, exceptionally, cosmically unlikely.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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20-08-2015, 08:23 AM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(20-08-2015 07:46 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Assertions I've made that none of you have yet refuted:

1. This is speculative in nature; scientists have been utterly unable to produce life in a laboratory environment.

What's to refute?

Quote:2. More than just a handful of scientists have been on the job.

Except nothing like hundreds of millions of person-hours in billions and billions of experiments have been expended.

Quote:3. If scientists are successful in this endeavor, they have created life via intelligent design and it would remain to demonstrate how such might be done more randomly in less controlled conditions than a laboratory (Earth in a primal environment).

Balderdash. Recreating the physical conditions of early Earth and standing back to see what happens is not intelligent design.

Quote:4. Natural laws regarding the tendency of things toward entropy and the tendency of collisions to produce either disorder (or particles and isotopes at more fundamental levels that are exceptionally short-lived) are just some of the factors that make what is being assumed highly, exceptionally, cosmically unlikely.

There is so much wrong in there that it behooves me to urge you, yet again, to read an actual science book.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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