How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
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09-06-2015, 11:20 AM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
The issue with your description of healthy churches being defined by their outreach programs overseas is that outreach is laced with agenda .... Here let us build you a well and a school so we can brainwash your children on the bible... Here attend this class and get a bowl of rice ..... Here take this free fictional book full of fabrication, forgery and fantasy.... Secular organizations like foundation beyond belief do these outreach programs without a shovel full of dogma.... Because we care about people, and don't view he outreach as a means to exploit more people

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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09-06-2015, 11:43 AM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(09-06-2015 11:20 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  The issue with your description of healthy churches being defined by their outreach programs overseas is that outreach is laced with agenda .... Here let us build you a well and a school so we can brainwash your children on the bible... Here attend this class and get a bowl of rice ..... Here take this free fictional book full of fabrication, forgery and fantasy.... Secular organizations like foundation beyond belief do these outreach programs without a shovel full of dogma.... Because we care about people, and don't view he outreach as a means to exploit more people
There certainly is that aspect of spreading the gospel.

But I am also aware of them providing services that would otherwise not be had by the natives, for free, without any requirement for the recipient to partake in their dogma. I can't fault that.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 11:48 AM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(09-06-2015 11:43 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 11:20 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  The issue with your description of healthy churches being defined by their outreach programs overseas is that outreach is laced with agenda .... Here let us build you a well and a school so we can brainwash your children on the bible... Here attend this class and get a bowl of rice ..... Here take this free fictional book full of fabrication, forgery and fantasy.... Secular organizations like foundation beyond belief do these outreach programs without a shovel full of dogma.... Because we care about people, and don't view he outreach as a means to exploit more people
There certainly is that aspect of spreading the gospel.

But I am also aware of them providing services that would otherwise not be had by the natives, for free, without any requirement for the recipient to partake in their dogma. I can't fault that.

Goal 1 is to preach. Goal 2 is to help.

Goal 2 can be achieved without inserting goal 1.
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09-06-2015, 11:53 AM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(09-06-2015 11:48 AM)Fodder_From_The_Truth Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 11:43 AM)tomilay Wrote:  There certainly is that aspect of spreading the gospel.

But I am also aware of them providing services that would otherwise not be had by the natives, for free, without any requirement for the recipient to partake in their dogma. I can't fault that.

Goal 1 is to preach. Goal 2 is to help.

Goal 2 can be achieved without inserting goal 1.
Goal 2 can indeed happen without goal 1.





Even though I do not share these people's beliefs, I cannot fault them for this particular application of their faith.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 11:57 AM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
Not at all. It's one of a few redeeming outcomes.

But I firmly believe that if they couldn't preach they wouldn't help. But for those in that much need its a price they pay gladly.
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09-06-2015, 12:00 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(09-06-2015 10:47 AM)tomilay Wrote:  The Catholic church fully embraces science. And pseudo science such as theistic evolution.

Free clue, if you embrace pseudo-science then the claim that you fully embrace science is, at best, questionable.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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09-06-2015, 12:07 PM (This post was last modified: 09-06-2015 12:10 PM by tomilay.)
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(09-06-2015 12:00 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 10:47 AM)tomilay Wrote:  The Catholic church fully embraces science. And pseudo science such as theistic evolution.

Free clue, if you embrace pseudo-science then the claim that you fully embrace science is, at best, questionable.
I meant they embrace the scientific admirably. But will readily revert to the pseudo-version when the raw version is inconvenient.

For instance back in High School(an Opus Dei school), Darwinian evolution was taught as is, without any tweaks to suit the religious beliefs.

But if you asked the wrong/right question, you were hapilly informed that these processes are the dictates of laws set up by the almighty.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 12:14 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(09-06-2015 12:07 PM)tomilay Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 12:00 PM)unfogged Wrote:  Free clue, if you embrace pseudo-science then the claim that you fully embrace science is, at best, questionable.
I meant they embrace the scientific admirably. But will readily revert to the pseudo-version when the raw version is inconvenient.

That I don't much disagree with, apart from quibbling over how admirable it is. The Catholic Church is certainly more science-friendly than many others. Its when you make blanket statements like they "fully embrace science" that the hackles go up because they don't.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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09-06-2015, 12:19 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(09-06-2015 12:14 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(09-06-2015 12:07 PM)tomilay Wrote:  I meant they embrace the scientific admirably. But will readily revert to the pseudo-version when the raw version is inconvenient.

That I don't much disagree with, apart from quibbling over how admirable it is. The Catholic Church is certainly more science-friendly than many others. Its when you make blanket statements like they "fully embrace science" that the hackles go up because they don't.
I find it admirable. A subjective opinion. Nevertheless true.

I take it you don't find it admirable. That might as well be true. I have no issue with that.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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09-06-2015, 12:49 PM
RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(09-06-2015 12:19 PM)tomilay Wrote:  I find it admirable. A subjective opinion. Nevertheless true.

I take it you don't find it admirable. That might as well be true. I have no issue with that.

I see it like saying John Wayne Gacy is more admirable than Ted Bundy because he did less harm in the long run. The CC may be less opposed to science but they still push a crapload of unsubstantiated woo.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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