How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
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18-06-2015, 08:36 AM
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RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(17-06-2015 09:52 AM)Worom Wrote:(17-06-2015 08:11 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: I think you may misunderstand how Hitler changed his rhetoric to suit his audience. Elsewhere, he was clear that he thought Jesus was a weak Jew, and that he abhorred both Jesus's sacrifice and substitutionary atonement! Reminds me of someone... There are a number of issues with your post. Most of which are simple to resolve. Two examples I'd highlight: 1. The "God is with us" belt buckle existed on German uniforms even prior to WWI. This is a skeptic's canard. 2. Hitler had to have doubted Jesus's divinity, since he made it plain HE, ADOLPH HITLER, WAS THE MESSIAH USHERING IN A 1,000 ARYAN MILLENNIUM. No, Hitler wasn't an atheist. He was an antichrist. I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior. |
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18-06-2015, 08:43 AM
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RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(17-06-2015 10:24 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:(17-06-2015 08:04 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: Um, calling for the forced exile and/or extinction of European Jewry in the teeming millions is less violent that the Bible? You must be thinking the Flood narrative is TRUE, I guess. Or do you equate the real horrors of Mein Kampf with what you call myths? Do you get ticked out at the jihads in the Dune saga? The rages of Voldemort upon Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry? In any of your examples, did God kill innocent adults? But be sure to explain how you know what good and evil and innocence and lack of innocence are, using only dialectical materialist, relativist and Darwinist views. Then judge my God. Ready, set, go! I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior. |
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18-06-2015, 08:59 AM
(This post was last modified: 18-06-2015 09:42 AM by Chas.)
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RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(18-06-2015 08:43 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:(17-06-2015 10:24 AM)Grasshopper Wrote: For the purposes of this argument, it doesn't matter whether or not the violence in the Bible is TRUE. It is demonstrably a more violent book than Mein Kampf. God kills the entire population of the world (including animals), wipes out entire cities (Sodom and Gomorrah), kills the firstborn of every family in Egypt (including animals) that doesn't happen to be Jewish, drowns the entire Egyptian army in the Red Sea, commands the Israelites to commit genocide over and over again, and finally consigns all of humanity except for a small handful to burn forever in a lake of fire. Sorry, but Hitler can't touch that for violence. And the worst part of it is that millions of Christians believe that all this is TRUE, and they still insist that God is "good". Boggles the mind... Yes, millions of them. Quote:But be sure to explain how you know what good and evil and innocence and lack of innocence are, using only dialectical materialist, relativist and Darwinist views. Then judge my God. Ready, set, go! Demonstrate that millions of people that were said to have been killed were, in fact, deserving of being slaughtered - using only non-Biblical sources. Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims. Science is not a subject, but a method. ![]() |
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18-06-2015, 09:33 AM
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RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(18-06-2015 08:43 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:(17-06-2015 10:24 AM)Grasshopper Wrote: For the purposes of this argument, it doesn't matter whether or not the violence in the Bible is TRUE. It is demonstrably a more violent book than Mein Kampf. God kills the entire population of the world (including animals), wipes out entire cities (Sodom and Gomorrah), kills the firstborn of every family in Egypt (including animals) that doesn't happen to be Jewish, drowns the entire Egyptian army in the Red Sea, commands the Israelites to commit genocide over and over again, and finally consigns all of humanity except for a small handful to burn forever in a lake of fire. Sorry, but Hitler can't touch that for violence. And the worst part of it is that millions of Christians believe that all this is TRUE, and they still insist that God is "good". Boggles the mind... (1) I said nothing about innocence or guilt. I simply pointed out that the Bible is a more violent (much more violent) book than Mein Kampf -- that God, if you believe the Bible, has killed many many times more people than Hitler -- and promises to do much worse than that to millions more. You cannot dispute this without making yourself look like an idiot. (2) We could argue about whether there even is such a thing as an "innocent" adult, but we don't need to -- because the Bible says that God killed millions of innocent children and animals, and ordered the Israelites to do the same. One of the Psalms celebrates smashing little babies' heads against the rocks. If babies aren't innocent, the word is meaningless. Yes, I'm judging your God. He's an asshole. |
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18-06-2015, 09:43 AM
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RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(18-06-2015 08:43 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: In any of your examples, did God kill innocent adults? But be sure to explain how you know what good and evil and innocence and lack of innocence are, using only dialectical materialist, relativist and Darwinist views. Then judge my God. Ready, set, go! Only the killing of innocent adults? So, are you then excusing the killing of children? I don't need anything other than his own words to demonstrate you're wrong. (17-06-2015 10:24 AM)Grasshopper Wrote: wipes out entire cities (Sodom and Gomorrah), The angels never search the entire city, they weren't there even a night. So how do you know that there were not the 10 good people that Abraham pleaded for? They never search. A group of douchebags want to have sex with the angels and that immediately means that everyone in the city is "bad". Maybe it was customary for them to have sex with strangers. After all, god never says homosexuality is bad until Leviticus which is long after this event. People like you love to say that we get our morals from above but you neglect to think that if these people were never told that it is "bad", they would not think there is anything wrong with it and therefore not guilty of anything. Kind of like charging a person with drunk driving before the automobile was invented. (17-06-2015 10:24 AM)Grasshopper Wrote: kills the firstborn of every family in Egypt (including animals) that doesn't happen to be Jewish, God states in Exodus 3:21 “And I will make the Egyptians favorably disposed toward this people, so that when you leave you will not go empty-handed." So he will make the Egyptians look favorably on the jews. Ignoring the fact that this violates the free will argument that christians love to lob our way when it suits them, this is indicating that there are or will be Egyptians that are sympathetic to the Jews. It never says that all Egyptians are in favor to the slavery of the Jews. Anyway, per the directives in Leviticus 25:44, the Egyptians were perfectly fine since the Jews started out as foreigners. So if the decree of Leviticus is good because everything god decrees is good, what the egyptians were doing was actually not bad because god seems to have no problem with slavery as long as they are foreigners. They therefore, should be considered innocent. This is also completely ignoring that the Angel of Death also killed slaves as stated in Exodus 11 and 12. The slaves who just happened to not be Jewish were also killed. Bear in mind that a 30 year old man can still be a 1st born. So yes, god kills innocents here too. (17-06-2015 10:24 AM)Grasshopper Wrote: drowns the entire Egyptian army in the Red Sea, So you maintain that just because a guy was in the Egyptian military, he is not innocent because of following orders? How many of these guys lost a brother, father, or son recently? You are making far more assumptions than any of us are. (17-06-2015 10:24 AM)Grasshopper Wrote: ...commands the Israelites to commit genocide over and over again I know this has been pointed out to you in the past, Q. You are the one making the claim that none of these people are innocent and the stories (with the possible exception of Sodom) never actually claim that they are all completely evil. (17-06-2015 10:24 AM)Grasshopper Wrote: and finally consigns all of humanity except for a small handful to burn forever in a lake of fire. This one is pretty self explanatory. You don't get heaven for the simple crime of not believing in god. That's it. There are other examples though of where god does kill people for doing absolutely nothing wrong. I absolutely can judge your construct of god and it is an absolute monster. "If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality. The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination." - Paul Dirac |
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18-06-2015, 09:51 AM
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RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(18-06-2015 08:36 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: There are a number of issues with your post. Most of which are simple to resolve. Two examples I'd highlight: Hitler was a theist who used his religion to move the masses. Mentioning the belt buckle only proves that Germany was a Christian nation. The crosses on the side and wings of the aircraft are called balkenkreuz, a Christian symbol. ![]() Adolf Hitler always invoked god in his speeches. Especially in his book. Which I read. "Anyone who dares to lay hands on the highest image of the Lord commits sacrilege against the benevolent creator of this miracle and contributes to the expulsion from paradise." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf Vol. 2 Chapter 1 " "I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.." " Here is a passage from the bible that is not that different in nature. Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers.” —Acts 7:51-52 Hitler was not an anti Christ. That title is a pathetic excuse to avoid responsibility. Hitler was a devoted Catholic with delusions of grandeur and an anti Semite. NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public. I will call him a liar and a dog here and now. Banjo. |
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19-06-2015, 09:07 AM
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RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(18-06-2015 08:59 AM)Chas Wrote:(18-06-2015 08:43 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: In any of your examples, did God kill innocent adults? I don't understand. I thought you said I'm a Bible thumper and don't rely on non-Bible sources. Be consistent. I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior. |
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19-06-2015, 09:09 AM
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RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(19-06-2015 09:07 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:(18-06-2015 08:59 AM)Chas Wrote: Yes, millions of them. Please show where I ever said that. I am consistent - the Bible is not evidence. Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims. Science is not a subject, but a method. ![]() |
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19-06-2015, 09:10 AM
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RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
(18-06-2015 09:33 AM)Grasshopper Wrote:(18-06-2015 08:43 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote: In any of your examples, did God kill innocent adults? But be sure to explain how you know what good and evil and innocence and lack of innocence are, using only dialectical materialist, relativist and Darwinist views. Then judge my God. Ready, set, go! I did a sermon on that Psalm last year. The message was about Christians being real. The Jews were brought forcibly to Babylon, along the route, pregnant mothers had their fetuses cut out, others were raped. That's really how the Psalmist felt, "Happy is he who kills your kids!" ... it's also a double prophecy, for 1) the Nazis did this, twirling Jewish toddlers then dashing their heads against rocks and concrete and 2) the Psalmist knows a power will overtake Babylon, it wasn't the Jews who would be killing the babies of Babylon. God forbid people in the Bible should be real or emotional, eh? I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior. |
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19-06-2015, 09:12 AM
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RE: How Religion Nearly Shattered my Mind
Quote:Only the killing of innocent adults? So, are you then excusing the killing of children? I don't need anything other than his own words to demonstrate you're wrong. For a scientist, you sometimes come off as highly illogical. You are saying on one hand that children are innocent but also that adults, who are not innocent, commit no moral crimes (sin) because you don't believe in sin or judgment. The very fact that you call children innocent is a witness to you that you know adults are sinners. This is one reason why Christians mark atheists as deniers. I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior. |
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