How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
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19-10-2017, 12:58 PM
RE: How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
(19-10-2017 12:27 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(19-10-2017 12:21 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  What is the fuck are you blathering about?
I think people believe what they say they believe.
And it's arrogant to suggest that you or anyone knows better.

Knows better as in "what to believe?" Is better than something else to believe. You have me agreeing because betters wholely undefined in that context .

But if thsts not what you mean... Do you think the field of neuroscience or knowledge of etymology within the brain is arrogance to study and think can be understood?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

I ask this in all honesty.
Are you very very stoned?

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19-10-2017, 12:59 PM
RE: How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
(19-10-2017 11:41 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(19-10-2017 09:15 AM)Rachel Wrote:  Your actual criticism (!) deserves no response, as it is based on a deliberate misunderstanding of my actual words.
Ok, now I'm convinced that you are actively lying because I've gone out of my way repeatedly to explain in great detail exactly why that's not the case. I've even gone back and posted your conversation with Biker and gone step by step through how you are dishonestly claiming he tried to make it about you when that's actually and factually what YOU were doing. I've provided you ample opportunity to counter that criticism, repeatedly, by explaining your actions and not only have you failed to do so you have actively refused to do so while engaging in exactly what you accused him, and then me, of doing.

(19-10-2017 09:15 AM)Rachel Wrote:  I considered explaining my earlier post to Biker, but it would do no good as you have made your mind up that I’m a horrible person.
Oh fuck off lol, I've asked you to explain MULTIPLE times and you have actively refused to do so. Three times I asked you to explain how your rationally connect A to B and you avoided it every goddamn time. Also please stop trying to pretend like you can read my fucking mind, I will tell you what I think, you will not tell me what I think.

You can't fucking refuse to give an explanation after three different requests and then try an make it my fault that you won't.

(19-10-2017 09:15 AM)Rachel Wrote:  I need not justify my actions or my words to you.
When you start throwing false accusations at me and lying to me in an attempt to deflect from legitimate criticism of your behaviour yes asshole you bloody well do. You don't get to lie to my damn face and then absolve yourself of any responsibility to defend yourself.

(19-10-2017 09:15 AM)Rachel Wrote:  You have no dog in this fight.
Actually, I do and that dog is "not accusing people of valuing child rape because they fucking disagree with me". It's a fairly common dog actually. Drinking Beverage

(19-10-2017 09:15 AM)Rachel Wrote:  But I won’t continue this back and forth with you.
Go right ahead I don't give a damn, but my criticism is still valid, justified, and more importantly uncontested. Burying your head in the sand won't change the fact you have been DEMONSTRABLY dishonest from the jump.

(19-10-2017 09:15 AM)Rachel Wrote:  I said what I said and you choose to take my passage out of context in order to place a position on me which I never took. That’s why I urged you to reread my post in order to gain context.
Oh bullshit. I quoted the entire exchange you had with him and the context is exactly what I said it was. The only thing me going back and rereading it is a noticed you're bloody lying when you claim he tried to make it about you. I've asked you multiple times for the context and the logic behind your statements that you think justifies them and you have run from it with your tail between your legs every damn time while throwing down smoke bombs to cover your ass like the worlds shittiest kunoichi.


You didn't like what he was saying so you made a bunch of unsupported assumptions:
Quote:"It’s a typical tactic from those who are devoid of ideas to deflect. That’s the case with you. Not being able to respond coherently about the resurgence of white supremacy, you change to topic to an attack on the left."
Unsupported assumptions and accusations that you then went on to restate after I criticised you:
Quote:"When someone comes to a debate and refuses to debate on that topic and changes the subject, something’s going on. Is it a paucity of ideas? Is it a sympathy with the topic under discussion?"
Which you DEMONSTRABLY used as justification to accuse him of holding the exact same values as that stupid cunt Milo:
Quote:"It’s then easy to conclude that you embrace not only white nationalism but all the values Milo Y espouses, including misogyny, pedophilia, and Nazism."

There is no missing context that justifies that or makes it a rational argument. Oh and " If this doesn’t represent your position, you ought to write with more clarity of thought. " Drinking Beverage


(19-10-2017 09:15 AM)Rachel Wrote:  Like many True Believers I’ve encountered over the years, you read not for illumination but for refutation.
Ya, you can pack that little bit of bullshit right back up your ass where you found it. The fact that you made multiple DEMONSTRABLY false claims is why you got refuted and not any other reason. Pretending I didn't read what you wrote for illumination just because I didn't come to the conclusion you wanted me to is bloody nonsense, especially after I went through it line by line and explained in very clear detail why you're wrong. Again I'M not the bad guy cause I can find evidence of you lying through your teeth, YOU are the bad guy for lying in the first place.

(19-10-2017 09:15 AM)Rachel Wrote:  I won’t respond to any further attempts at lecturing from you.
Good for you by that makes nearly a half a dozen chances for you to actually address the criticism I made only for you to dishonestly avoid doing so. Shoving your head in the sand won't make it any less accurate.

(19-10-2017 09:15 AM)Rachel Wrote:  Given your emotional outbursts to me, you have abandoned the moral high ground.
Hahahaha! I'm not the one lying about multiple people to deflect from legitimate criticism and accusing people of valuing paedophilia and Nazism because they don't participate in the conversation in the way I want them to. You can't even see the ground I'm on your so low down in the vally.

Save your breath.




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19-10-2017, 01:09 PM
RE: How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
(19-10-2017 11:58 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  From what I've seen is that a lot of reasonable people actually found the right less objectionable (racism and all) to the endless complaints and whining from the left.


From what I've seen a lot of reasonable people find left to be less objectionable than right with it's endless martyr complex, nationalism fetish, authoritarian tendencies and blunders and arrogance masked as making x great again.

Quote: A lot of people who aren't racist have found themselves either without a party or voting to head off the liberal taliban.


Liberal taliban? This phrase makes as much sense as sensible right or honest priest.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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19-10-2017, 01:16 PM
RE: How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
(19-10-2017 11:58 AM)Rachel Wrote:  I did nothing of the sort.
1.)You told me he tried to make it about you. He didn't, that was a demonstrable lie.
2.)You accused me in your first post to me of trying to avoid defending the indefensible by counter-attacking using my post as an example, despite the fact that you don't even know what my views on the subject are, that I wasn't engaged in the conversation to the point I needed to counter anything, and that there was nothing at all I felt the need to defend. So that accusation was entirely false just like I claimed.
3.)You claim there is a context I'm missing which can explain how it's rational to go from A to B and when I ask for it repeatedly you refuse to present it and then say you won't because I've already made up my mind something that requires you to be able to read my fucking mind for it to be true and is even more dishonest given that my very first post includes a request for you to do just that.
4.) Through this whole bit of nonsense, the ONLY thing you haven't talked about is the actual criticism I levelled at you in my first post. You have addressed in one way or another almost every other thing I have said EXCEPT my actual criticism.

So yes, you have done exactly that. You have avoided my criticism by lying to me and levelling accusations with no basis towards me. You have done everything in your power to avoid giving an explanation for your statement, an explanation that in your own words would clear up the whole mess which is extremely childish. "Oh there is a reason .....but I'm not gonna tell you!" What are you four years old?


(19-10-2017 11:58 AM)Rachel Wrote:  Again, this isn’t about you, has nothing to do with you, and is about you wanting to pick a fight with me.
Hahaha and here we go again with you pretending to be able to read my fucking mind. Here is my original post:
(18-10-2017 09:05 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  What are you talking about? One does not lead to the other. If you are going to conclude, without any ACTUAL evidence, based on a couple of posts that a forum member embraces "white nationalism, misogyny, paedophilia, and Nazism" I'm going to say you have some serious problems with logic.

I don't agree with a lot of what he said but seriously walk me through the steps from going from "you lack ideas and want to change the topic to attack the left" to "you support fucking children" because I don't see it. Like at all.

Let's not abandon reason just because the topic is politics, please.
There is nothing in there whatsoever that says "I wanna pick a fight". It might be terse but it's not rude and it's not aggressive, it's a simple expression of confusion and a request to clarify your statement. You responded by COMPLETELY AVOIDING THE POINT and making a false accusation as to my motive and personal opinions.
You need to learn the difference between justifiable criticism and a personal attack because they are not the same thing. I was not trying to pick a fight, we are in one now because you have been intentionally evasive and dishonest.

Do you see what I did there? You criticised my behaviour and I took the time to explain my statements and support them, and offer a justification as to why you are mistaken. TRY IT SOMETIME.


(19-10-2017 11:58 AM)Rachel Wrote:  There isn’t a single fact in that passage. Still not impressed.
Given that I have gone through line by line and point by point to show exactly how that is the case you need to do better than sticking your fingers in your years and going "Nuh-uh!!".

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19-10-2017, 01:41 PM
RE: How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
(19-10-2017 10:29 AM)epronovost Wrote:  
(19-10-2017 08:26 AM)BikerDude Wrote:  But that's really the fault of all of the racist misogynists who have come out of the woodwork?
The weight of denial makes all of these creatures very very angry.

Came out of the woodwork? As is if they were gone?

In my opinion, racism and misogyny are still rather fairly common traits in the American society. Sure, these traits are in decline, but that doesn't mean they are rare by any metric. The Evengelical Christian voters are one of the most important voting demographic and they are by their very nature misogynists.

The denial that makes me very, very angry is that of people who think racism and sexism are things of the past that now effects only a minority of women and racial minorities.

Yes, you can campaign on a strongly xenophobic and clearly anti-feminist platform in the US and win elections. A xenophobic form of nationalism and sexism still sell rather well in this country. With the proper propaganda machine behind it, it can win elections in a pretty steady fashion. The GOP is in control of most of the governence apparatus of the USA from the State to the Federal level and it has been so for a while now, especially at State level.

I think Trump has been wrongly qualified as an abnomaly and a massive electoral surprise. The GOP was rolling on electoral victories for a while before on the exact same platform, but with a better PR service. The reinvigoration of white nationalism is the direct concequences of the success of the GOP strategy. With so much in bank, they don't need (neither are they capable anymore) to control their public speech as carefully. While their base celebrate over their massive victories, its more difficult to constantly disguise xenophobia and sexism behind dogwistles.

Wow. They were all duped?




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19-10-2017, 01:49 PM
RE: How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
(19-10-2017 01:41 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  Wow. They were all duped?

When did I said they were duped? I said they were convinced (or saw their views reinforced) by propagandist, not duped. There's a difference between the two.

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19-10-2017, 01:52 PM
RE: How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
(19-10-2017 12:16 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  My take is that you're acting like an asshole, and intentionally being obtuse about the entire thing.
Your definition of obtuse involves going point for point and line by line and offering multiple arguments, rereading the conversation when she asked me to in good faith, and repeatedly making requests for clarification from her as obtuse? Really?
I'm an asshole sure, but that's my default response when people lie to my face and keep doing so after a demonstration of the lie has been made.

(19-10-2017 12:16 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  Even a casual read of Rachel's post doesn't jive with the extreme way in which you are interpreting it.
She has said that it's a typical tactic of those that are devoid of ideas to deflect, she said that he was deflecting, she continued by saying that because he can't respond to the topic of white nationalism that he changes the topic to be about "the left". So far so good, I actually agree for the most part. Then she says it's easy then to conclude that you embrace white nationalism, misogyny, paedophilia, and Nazism.
My "extreme" way of interpretation is taken directly from her writing and in context, which I demonstrated by going back and showing point by damn point that there is no rational justification for A to lead to B. Fuck it though, I'm not unreasonable and that's why I asked 3-4 times repeatedly for her to explain her statement. She refused to do so again and again.

You are welcome to explain how one goes from "you don't have ideas and just want to change the subject" to "it's easy to conclude you value paedophilia". By all means, have at thee cause I really wanna know, so far no one has made anything close to an explanation for it and even epronovost, who I was responding to, thinks she was being offensive and unethical, though not illogical.

(19-10-2017 12:16 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  Actually, about the only thing I could say she might be guilty of is false dichotomy; that is, either BikerDude has a paucity of ideas or his views align with those mentioned.
Except she didn't say that at all, you are mistaken. She said he had no ideas and was trying to change the topic to the left intentionally and concluded from that that he values child rape and Nazism. You could make the argument that it's a giant non-sequitur, but I really don't care about that as that's not what stoked my ire.

(19-10-2017 12:16 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  Of course, she then gave him (and herself) an out by saying "if neither of those are true, try writing with more clarity"
So what? That's not how reasonable conversation happens. If I joined a conversation and decided "hey I don't like how off topic I personally feel this person is" and accused a person of valuing child rape but then "left an out" and said "but if your not you should get back on topic" would you defend me as rational or moral? I sure as shit wouldn't defend that which is why I am here admonishing that and being attacked by people like you that seem to be OK with it.

(19-10-2017 12:16 PM)Stefan Mayerschoff Wrote:  Consider yourself "rapped on the knuckles" for being an ass clown for no good reason
Haha, oh man. OK two things..... firstly you are "rapping the knuckles" of the person who took umbrage at being lied to and seeing someone use an unsupported accusation of child rape as a debate tool and not the person doing the lying and making the accusation. That tells me all I need to know about your qualifications to give me a moral rebuke. Seriously you are trying to admonish the person lied to not the person doing the lying. I ain't trying to shit on you mate but it's seriously bewildering to watch.

Secondly and more importantly being lied to, being accused of things I wasn't doing, having my criticism completely ignored and admittedly intentionally ignored, being blamed for her refusal to give an explanation despite asking for it multiple times, then having those lies and dishonest responses repeated (and defended, good job you) after I have made MULTIPLE demonstrations of those lies is MORE than enough reason to be aggressive. It's the opposite of no good reason it's literally half a dozen good reasons.

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19-10-2017, 01:52 PM
How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
(19-10-2017 01:16 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  You need to learn the difference between justifiable criticism and a personal attack because they are not the same thing. I was not trying to pick a fight, we are in one now because you have been intentionally evasive and dishonest.

I know the difference between criticism and a personal attack. The escalating degree of personal abuse you have heaped on me with your barrage of profanity shows the difference.

I have written as clearly and concisely as I can. I apologize for not taking into account your problems with basic reading comprehension.

But regarding your often repeated whine, please refer to Stefan Mayerschoff’s reply.

You have ascribed to me opinions I don’t hold and motives I don’t have. Your entire attack against me (as I said) is based on your interpretation of my words, thus it’s a straw man.

This will be my last reply to you unless you would like to discuss the rise of white nationalism in America.
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19-10-2017, 01:56 PM
RE: How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
(19-10-2017 01:49 PM)epronovost Wrote:  
(19-10-2017 01:41 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  Wow. They were all duped?

When did I said they were duped? I said they were convinced (or saw their views reinforced) by propagandist, not duped. There's a difference between the two.

Oh ok so anything that is not your view is propaganda?

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19-10-2017, 01:57 PM
How White Nationalism Was Reinvigorated
(19-10-2017 01:41 PM)BikerDude Wrote:  Wow. They were all duped?

Sure. The great GOP scam was to convince white working class Americans to vote against their own best interests and that a billionaire would actually give a crap about the working man.
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