How/Why did Islam get founded?
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04-04-2012, 04:24 PM
How/Why did Islam get founded?
It's a complicated question with a difficult answer but what I mean is: Did Islam get founded because either Christianity or Judaism was increasing in popularity over the world but the people representing those religions realized the arabic world had nothing in common with either religions so they started to make an arabic version of it, namely Islam. Because teaching people about a religion they have nothing in common with is not good for business.
So basically the question is, was that the case, am I completely wrong about it or is there no definitive answer?

Also, hi, I'm new.
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04-04-2012, 04:46 PM
RE: How/Why did Islam get founded?
Welcome Crusher, I hope you have fun here!

I'm not sure what conclusions to draw about "why" Islam was started- but I would suspect the reasons are about the same as any other religion. The ravings of a madman or a person who knows the power of religion desiring to take advantage. Political and social control is one of the reasons people take advantage of religions to help them grow.

Here's an easy place to start researching, but not necessarily the most thorough answers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam
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04-04-2012, 04:58 PM
RE: How/Why did Islam get founded?
Well what I wonder is, are the abrahamic religions actually just the same religion wrapped in a different cultural setting to make it more tempting for the locals and is that how Islam started?
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04-04-2012, 05:19 PM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2012 04:18 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: How/Why did Islam get founded?
(04-04-2012 04:58 PM)Crusher Wrote:  Well what I wonder is, are the abrahamic religions actually just the same religion wrapped in a different cultural setting to make it more tempting for the locals and is that how Islam started?

Tthe Abrahamics have Yahweh, in common. Apart from that, they are very different.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlnnWbkMlbg , (the history of Yahweh)
Judaism : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/bible/
Christianity : http://video.pbs.org/video/1365214164/ (It's really Paulianity today.) He, (Saul of Tarsus), invented the "salvation" paradigm. See Mark Fulton's posts.
Islam : http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/...links.html

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04-04-2012, 06:47 PM
RE: How/Why did Mormonism get founded?
(04-04-2012 04:24 PM)Crusher Wrote:  It's a complicated question with a difficult answer but what I mean is: Did Islam get founded because either Christianity or Judaism was increasing in popularity over the world but the people representing those religions realized the arabic world had nothing in common with either religions so they started to make an arabic version of it, namely Islam. Because teaching people about a religion they have nothing in common with is not good for business.
So basically the question is, was that the case, am I completely wrong about it or is there no definitive answer?

Also, hi, I'm new.
Or Scientology, or Seventh-Day Adventism, or Christian Science, or ...

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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04-04-2012, 06:53 PM (This post was last modified: 04-04-2012 07:08 PM by Peterkin.)
RE: How/Why did Islam get founded?
Christianity was spreading through the Roman empire. (Mostly by force of arms, but also through missionaries.)
It's not that the Arabs were different : they had plenty in common with the Jews, including subjection by Rome - but also a long history of competing for the same territories and scarce resources, vendettas and mutual loathing, which i would expect the Roman governors to have exploited for centuries.

The Arabic peoples needed something to rally 'round (really, someone, with a strong message) to unite the tribes, city states and nations. Muhammad could see the advantage of a single god with a single, coherent set of rules, observances and disciplines - particularly submission to the god and the promise of an afterlife with lots of water (imo, the virgins were secondary; paradise is full of fountains). He was a clever man and evidently a charismatic preacher, but the idea must have been very appealing by itself, too, or it wouldn't have continued to grow after his death.
It worked... and also brought about a great deal of internal conflict as well as the later, implacable hostility of Europe.... especially after the Islamic empires not only shook off the occupation but conquered vast areas of Europe itself.
I think Muhammad would have preferred peace with other "people of the book", but the xtians were too self-righteous, intolerant and confident by then.

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04-04-2012, 07:57 PM
RE: How/Why did Islam get founded?
Well here we go. I just covered Islam in my medieval history class, so here go nothing.

Mohammed was born to one of the wealthy families of Mecca. Mecca had the Kaaba( the black meteorite and holy place of the Islamic faith). He was orphaned at the age of 12 and sent to a poor family of relatives. There he first began driving camels through the desert.

One day the Arch Angel Gabriel spoke to him. Gabriel told Mohammed to go to Jerusalem. He arrived in there and received the Koran during what is known as the night of power.

He returned home and started spreading his religion. He did not have much time at first so he married a wealthy widow(her name i forgot) she owned a Camel Driving company from her late husband. This allowed Mohammed to meditate on his religion and spread it.

Soon Mohammed had a large enough following to establish a place of worship. He attempted to set it up in Mecca but the families there did not want a new religon. They had grown wealthy from setting high taxes on pilgrims coming to the Kaaba to worship. Mohammed then fled to Yathrib in what is known as his flight from mecca.

Once he arrived in Yathrib(Medina after Islam becomes dominant) he set up a place of worship.( Yathrib was place were multiple religons were present so the tolerated them. Mohammed then created an army of his followers, who were primarily Bedouins.(Bedouins were a fierce warrior culture). Then his army met an army from mecca. Though outnumbered, they won the battle. This victory converted many people for they believed allah had won the battle for them.



Mohammed then ransacked Mecca and destroyed the statues of the 360 gods surrounding the Kaaba.(Allah was himself one of these gods). Mohammed died shorty thereafter and the first four caliphs were of his relations. The caliph was the religious head of Islam and the leader.

After the fourth caliph died a dispute broke out between two factions of Islam. The Sunnites believed any devout Muslim could be caliph. The Shiites believed that only direct descendants of Mohammed should be caliph. This resulted in war where ultimately the Shiites lost.

After this was done the Muslims united under they Ummayad Caliphate. They spread Islam by conquering areas and then offering the citizens to either convert to Islam or pay a high infidel tax. They spread throughout northern Africa and into Spain. They then led an army into southern france where they were defeated by an army led by Mayor of the Palace Charles Martel.

Peace between christian and moslems reigned until the Emperor Alexius of the Byzantine empire asked for help from the pope to expel the Muslim Seljuk Turks from his lands. What he expected were about 10,000 professional soldiers. What he got was crusade of nearly 100,000 people.

What drove the split between Christians and Muslims was when Crusaders ate the dead Muslims because they had no souls. When President Bush declared a crusade for democracy all the arab people grabbed their babies and whispered to them that no christian would eat them.

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05-04-2012, 10:02 AM
RE: How/Why did Islam get founded?
Hitchens, in God is not Great, said that the Arabs felt they had been "left out" of the prophesies and wanted to make it appear they were as exclusive to God's plan as the Jews had been. It's an unsupported assertion --- a mere "guess" --- but it sounds like a fair guess.

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05-04-2012, 10:07 AM
RE: How/Why did Islam get founded?
Mohammed and the boys figured out that the whole "single god + prophet = salvation and truth" concept would work great if it was written in Arabic with an Arab prophet rather than a Jewish or Gentile one. Pretty much the same thing that the early Christians figured out -- why be subservient to Jews and Judaism, when we can just steal their religion and make it our own under a new name? Thus the Jewish prophets and patriarchs magically transformed into Christian and Muslim saints. Specifically Jewish monotheism magically became "Abrahamic religion." Such wholesale theft was justified by pointing to the Prophetic books and saying, look at how badly these Jews disobeyed God. We won't disobey him, therefore we are the real Chosen Ones.

Shame they didn't have copyright laws in those days. It would have spared the world all of this retarded nonsense.
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05-04-2012, 05:59 PM
RE: How/Why did Islam get founded?
On another forum someone said Mohammed asked the jews to help him spread his new religion but they turned him down which explains the antisemitism. Can this be confirmed?

"One day the Arch Angel Gabriel spoke to him. Gabriel told Mohammed to go to Jerusalem."
I assume that didn't actually happen (just a thought). Can it be explained why he suddenly started talking about an angel he met in a cave? Did he just hallucinate, did he just made it up for some reason or are the historical texts quite vague about that moment assuming we can actually trust them.
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