How can God be uncaused?
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23-08-2012, 05:17 PM
How can God be uncaused?
I view this thread as an opportunity for an interactive masochism on my part. I believe that the universe does not require a creator. It lacks any logical credibility or evidence. Yet I am interested on how you, the theist, would explain how the universe came to be and why the universe can't be uncaused, but somehow God can. My responses will primarily consist of facts, so this thread is focused on the theistic explanations for the origin of the universe. Thus I will only respond to any shit that pertains to the subject, well, shit that I find worthwhile anyway. Let the facepalming begin.

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23-08-2012, 05:21 PM
RE: How can God be uncaused?
He caused him self through orgasm!

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
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23-08-2012, 05:23 PM
RE: How can God be uncaused?
(23-08-2012 05:21 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  He caused him self through orgasm!

Because I want to further my scholarly masochism, could you please describe a godly orgasm?

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23-08-2012, 05:23 PM
RE: How can God be uncaused?
Passive Agressive much? Wink

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23-08-2012, 05:26 PM
RE: How can God be uncaused?
It was like a Big Bang!

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The atheist is a man who destroys the imaginary things which afflict the human race, and so leads men back to nature, to experience and to reason.
-Baron d'Holbach-
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23-08-2012, 05:28 PM
RE: How can God be uncaused?
So how does one create oneself?

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23-08-2012, 06:12 PM
RE: How can God be uncaused?
(23-08-2012 05:28 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  So how does one create oneself?

You're gonna be sorry you asked this question.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amun
Scroll down.
Amun creates himself.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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23-08-2012, 06:21 PM
RE: How can God be uncaused?
(23-08-2012 05:23 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(23-08-2012 05:21 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  He caused him self through orgasm!

Because I want to further my scholarly masochism, could you please describe a godly orgasm?


Too easy:

1. The Coming of the Lord

2. The Second Coming

I'm looking forward to the 3rd movie in the series: The Return of the Lord

Bigger question... If Jesus loves us, why doesn't he sleep on the damp patch?

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23-08-2012, 06:35 PM
How can God be uncaused?
I remember being asked this in the 4th or 5th grade walking to school with my buddy. He asked, "If God made everything, who made God?"
This feels like a gotcha question to almost every atheist I've read or listened to, particularly those here. The thing is, to the believer in the Judeo-Christian God, it is as nonsensical a question to them as their answer seems nonsensical to us. In Christian theology, no one made God. No one gave birth to God. There is no beginning nor end to God. God just is. The logical, materialistic mind can't handle this because it doesn't fit the laws of nature. But that just bolsters the True Believer's faith. If God had to conform to the laws of nature, then by definition, it would no longer be God. If God had a beginning, again, it would be nonsensical to the believer. God just is and God just does as he pleases. It's the last issue I had in completing my deconversion. I had long since abandoned Biblical belief. I had long since accepted the Big Bang, age of the universe and evolution. But two questions remained and they caused great discomfort in trying to cut away the last vestiges of my God Delusion. One was how could life develop in it's own and how could the Big Bang happen on its own.

The lack of a solution to these questions no longer troubles me. I'm still very interested in wishing an answer will come in my lifetime, but I'm ok with not knowing. Probably my first lesson into the liberation of free-thought was where there is a lack of verifiable evidence, it's okay to say I don't know. It's also preferable to say I don't know rather than create a make believe answer. That's how we got all the crazy religions to begin with. "How do we know the sun will rise tomorrow, Dad?" "Well son, there's this god who rides a fiery chariot across the skies and he has to come back in the morning because he's being chased by the moon god at night."

No more need for an imaginary answer because we have physical proof for what happens with orbits and such.

I expect that someday humanity will discover a mechanism for the things we do not yet know, and just as no god is needed to explain weather or health, no god is needed to explain origins.

The other thing that began to sink in more, after a time, is the thought that I once had no problem thinking of God as having no beginning. If that's the case and I found plenty of reasons to no longer believe in God, I can certainly now transfer my former acceptance of its eternal existence to the eternal existence of the universe, or more likely, the multiverse. The universe does not require a beginning. The universe just is.

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23-08-2012, 08:28 PM
RE: How can God be uncaused?
(23-08-2012 06:35 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  I remember being asked this in the 4th or 5th grade walking to school with my buddy. He asked, "If God made everything, who made God?"
This feels like a gotcha question to almost every atheist I've read or listened to, particularly those here. The thing is, to the believer in the Judeo-Christian God, it is as nonsensical a question to them as their answer seems nonsensical to us. In Christian theology, no one made God. No one gave birth to God. There is no beginning nor end to God. God just is. The logical, materialistic mind can't handle this because it doesn't fit the laws of nature. But that just bolsters the True Believer's faith. If God had to conform to the laws of nature, then by definition, it would no longer be God. If God had a beginning, again, it would be nonsensical to the believer. God just is and God just does as he pleases. It's the last issue I had in completing my deconversion. I had long since abandoned Biblical belief. I had long since accepted the Big Bang, age of the universe and evolution. But two questions remained and they caused great discomfort in trying to cut away the last vestiges of my God Delusion. One was how could life develop in it's own and how could the Big Bang happen on its own.

So one puts the scientific scrutiny of the principle of cause and effect on the Big Bang, but not on the God postulation? How interesting.

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