How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
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29-10-2012, 03:08 PM
How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
Just one of the arguments I have come across in the atheist community that seems really interesting. It argues that if A God Is infinite it can't, by definition, fit himself, or even a part of himself into a finite space.

Most people conceive God as an infinite being that has no beginning and end. If a being such as this exits, then it shouldn't be able to interact in the universe because the universe is a finite, granted its expanding, area. Now, not all believe God is infinite, so this argument does not apply, but for the sake of this post, lets say that a particular theist believes in an infinite God, and miracles.

In order for God to interact within the universe, he must enter into the universe to interact with it . We have never observed anything interacting with anything that has not been part of the universe. For miracles to have occurred, God had interact with matter inside the universe so he had to come into the universe to do so.

This brings up the question, How can an infinite being occupy a finite space? The easiest answer is that since God is all-powerful, there is no trouble doing it, but that means that God can do impossible, self contradictory things which leads to the answer on why God can't lift the rock...etc.

I can't really describe it all that well, but I hope you get what I am trying to say.

For all of those that want to point to set theory, it's one and two are not set points, they can be expanded as long as the numbers you are adding in can fit between such distances.

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29-10-2012, 03:14 PM
RE: How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
If god is all knowing then an infinite amount of knowledge would have to fit into jesus's mind.

At which point his brain would also have to become infinitely big, thus filling the universe destroying everything in it.

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29-10-2012, 03:23 PM
 
RE: How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
What do you mean by an infinite being? Infinite in what way? Size? God has no size. Knowledge? The mind is not generated by a brain.

If you consider God to be a monistic entity, consciousness being one of His attributes, then your question loses meaning. If you consider God to be a defined being in a defined place, like the Christians do, then you're right--it's not possible.
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29-10-2012, 03:25 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2012 03:28 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
(29-10-2012 03:08 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Just one of the arguments I have come across in the atheist community that seems really interesting. It argues that if A God Is infinite it can't, by definition, fit himself, or even a part of himself into a finite space.

Most people conceive God as an infinite being that has no beginning and end. If a being such as this exits, then it shouldn't be able to interact in the universe because the universe is a finite, granted its expanding, area. Now, not all believe God is infinite, so this argument does not apply, but for the sake of this post, lets say that a particular theist believes in an infinite God, and miracles.

In order for God to interact within the universe, he must enter into the universe to interact with it . We have never observed anything interacting with anything that has not been part of the universe. For miracles to have occurred, God had interact with matter inside the universe so he had to come into the universe to do so.

This brings up the question, How can an infinite being occupy a finite space? The easiest answer is that since God is all-powerful, there is no trouble doing it, but that means that God can do impossible, self contradictory things which leads to the answer on why God can't lift the rock...etc.

I can't really describe it all that well, but I hope you get what I am trying to say.

For all of those that want to point to set theory, it's one and two are not set points, they can be expanded as long as the numbers you are adding in can fit between such distances.

They would say that the god doesn't *have* to "fit itself" anywhere, as it's immaterial/non-material. "All of him" also doesn't have to "get into the space" anyway. The "infinity" in theology is not "endless time" but "timelessness". But that doesn't really help them, as they "talk" *as if* the god exists in time. (They want their cake and eat it too).

Miracles, in the theological sense, aren't really "unnatural" events. (That's a common mistake of Fundamentalists ... it's an un-biblical concept, but a very common one). A "miracle" (in the biblical sense), is a completely natural event, in which "the hand of god is seen, (by belief) as having acted". (metaphorically).

"a" being, by definition is not "another being", thus is not "infinite", no matter what they say. Either god(s) ARE being, or they are not infinite Being, (which refutes "personal god" for the same reasons).

The idea of a timeless being "acting" is self refuting, and it is so to BOTH concepts of "eternal", (infinite). This is because up to the point of the act, is NOT infinite, as it's divided into two by the act, (to "before" and "after" the act).

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29-10-2012, 03:29 PM
RE: How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
Why exactly does an infinite being have to be confined in a finite space to exist within a finite space? If He's infinite, He exists wholly in the finite space as well as the space outside of that space and the space outside that space ad infintum.

God is the "active voice" here... He isn't subjugated by finite space - He subjugates it with His infinite nature.

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29-10-2012, 03:31 PM
RE: How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
This sort of argument gets refuted quite well by Flatland. The theist will just say you're not thinking big enough to understand God's dimension.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/048627263X

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

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29-10-2012, 03:36 PM
RE: How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
(29-10-2012 03:31 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  This sort of argument gets refuted quite well by Flatland. The theist will just say you're not thinking big enough to understand God's dimension.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/048627263X

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland

sweet! always a good thing to better learn and adapt. thanks Erxy for helping me expand my knowledge.

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29-10-2012, 03:38 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2012 03:49 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
(29-10-2012 03:29 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  God is the "active voice" here... He isn't subjugated by finite space - He subjugates it with His infinite nature.
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Keep on preachin' it KC.

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29-10-2012, 03:39 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2012 09:02 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
That argument may have use in negating the existence of a particular conception of God, and in a particular conception of the universe, but your selling a product to a very limited market. Even if you were selling it to the right guy he would likely change his conception of the universe before he would change his conception of God.

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29-10-2012, 09:34 PM
RE: How can an infinite being place himself in a finite space?
(29-10-2012 03:23 PM)Egor Wrote:  What do you mean by an infinite being? Infinite in what way? Size? God has no size. Knowledge? The mind is not generated by a brain.

If you consider God to be a monistic entity, consciousness being one of His attributes, then your question loses meaning. If you consider God to be a defined being in a defined place, like the Christians do, then you're right--it's not possible.

Lol predestination.




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