How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
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27-01-2016, 09:56 PM
RE: How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
(27-01-2016 02:36 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 02:18 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The sad part???

People actually believe it's a choice between Clinton and Trumph......


Those are the ONLY two people in the whole fucking country who can do the job???


....

Blow me....

....

It's party loyalists who are to blame.

Vote that straight ticket ---

It's all YOUR fault....
I've seen you say this (or something with an equivalent sentiment) multiple times. But fact of the matter in THIS election we (the people) don't have a way to change the system or implement a different election process.

If I'm a Prisoner of War and my captors approached me and told me my only options for food were Bread OR Lettuce, and I respond, "Actually, I won't settle for anything other than steak." Is that reasonable (Assume they don't care if you starve to death)? That's how I see the sentiment of boycotting our current system. You can't change it at election time, you have to work with what is available.

If you chase the "ideal" instead of accept the best of what is available you run a huge risk of instead getting nothing, or something that you find completely unacceptable.

This is an inapt analogy. There are other, third party candidates running. In other words, steak is on the menu, but you don't order it because the people on the next table aren't ordering it, or because you've already decided it's going to be bread or lettuce, and stop reading the menu at that point.

The only reason why third-party nominees won't win is because people here insist on either 1) voting party-line, or 2) want to feel that "their vote counted" by voting for the winner.

1) Anyone who votes party line is a drone and has no right to complain no matter which party is in power.

2) Your vote counts in any event. You don't get a prize for picking the winner; this ain't the horse track.

How, exactly, do you expect anything to change, without a change in voting patterns?
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27-01-2016, 10:15 PM
RE: How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
FWIW, I've been voting 3rd party for a decade and, near as I can tell, it's had zero impact on the monopoly of the two party system.

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27-01-2016, 10:33 PM
RE: How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
(27-01-2016 09:56 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 02:36 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  I've seen you say this (or something with an equivalent sentiment) multiple times. But fact of the matter in THIS election we (the people) don't have a way to change the system or implement a different election process.

If I'm a Prisoner of War and my captors approached me and told me my only options for food were Bread OR Lettuce, and I respond, "Actually, I won't settle for anything other than steak." Is that reasonable (Assume they don't care if you starve to death)? That's how I see the sentiment of boycotting our current system. You can't change it at election time, you have to work with what is available.

If you chase the "ideal" instead of accept the best of what is available you run a huge risk of instead getting nothing, or something that you find completely unacceptable.

This is an inapt analogy. There are other, third party candidates running. In other words, steak is on the menu, but you don't order it because the people on the next table aren't ordering it, or because you've already decided it's going to be bread or lettuce, and stop reading the menu at that point.

The only reason why third-party nominees won't win is because people here insist on either 1) voting party-line, or 2) want to feel that "their vote counted" by voting for the winner.

1) Anyone who votes party line is a drone and has no right to complain no matter which party is in power.

2) Your vote counts in any event. You don't get a prize for picking the winner; this ain't the horse track.

How, exactly, do you expect anything to change, without a change in voting patterns?
Well, the thing is steak really isn't on the menu because the 3rd party doesn't have any chance at winning. Do you recall how many times a 3rd party nominee even took a state during the presidential election in your lifetime (I don't know the answer to this)? Choosing 3rd party is effectively throwing your vote away in the current system. Just like choosing the steak would effectively leave you with either nothing to eat, or with your captors just making the choice for you.

As for how to change this. That I don't know. I've heard that the change would need to start local and expand outward, but really this isn't my field of interest. But trying to change it on the presidential election in the current system seems pointless IMO.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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27-01-2016, 10:39 PM
RE: How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
(27-01-2016 10:15 PM)BnW Wrote:  FWIW, I've been voting 3rd party for a decade and, near as I can tell, it's had zero impact on the monopoly of the two party system.

Same here, for two decades.

You do realize that the waves which pound seashore cliffs into sandy beaches -- those waves consist of molecules moving in concert, right? Expecting your solitary droplet to cause erosion isn't realistic. What are you doing to get those around you off the two-party tit?
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27-01-2016, 10:49 PM
RE: How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
(27-01-2016 10:33 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Well, the thing is steak really isn't on the menu because the 3rd party doesn't have any chance at winning. Do you recall how many times a 3rd party nominee even took a state during the presidential election in your lifetime (I don't know the answer to this)? Choosing 3rd party is effectively throwing your vote away in the current system. Just like choosing the steak would effectively leave you with either nothing to eat, or with your captors just making the choice for you.

And how, exactly, do you think doing the same thing over and over will change matters? Be detailed.

I may be right about being able to get change, I may be wrong -- but I know for a fact that your "vote the two major parties, they're the only ones which can win" will certainly never get the change you claim you want to see.

What are you doing to achieve the things you want to see?

(27-01-2016 10:33 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  As for how to change this. That I don't know. I've heard that the change would need to start local and expand outward, but really this isn't my field of interest. But trying to change it on the presidential election in the current system seems pointless IMO.

It doesn't get more local than the privacy of your voting booth. Be the change you wish to see.
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28-01-2016, 01:22 AM
RE: How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
(27-01-2016 10:49 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(27-01-2016 10:33 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  Well, the thing is steak really isn't on the menu because the 3rd party doesn't have any chance at winning. Do you recall how many times a 3rd party nominee even took a state during the presidential election in your lifetime (I don't know the answer to this)? Choosing 3rd party is effectively throwing your vote away in the current system. Just like choosing the steak would effectively leave you with either nothing to eat, or with your captors just making the choice for you.

And how, exactly, do you think doing the same thing over and over will change matters? Be detailed.

I may be right about being able to get change, I may be wrong -- but I know for a fact that your "vote the two major parties, they're the only ones which can win" will certainly never get the change you claim you want to see.

What are you doing to achieve the things you want to see?

(27-01-2016 10:33 PM)Adrianime Wrote:  As for how to change this. That I don't know. I've heard that the change would need to start local and expand outward, but really this isn't my field of interest. But trying to change it on the presidential election in the current system seems pointless IMO.

It doesn't get more local than the privacy of your voting booth. Be the change you wish to see.
Well, first I never claimed I wanted to see a change.

And when I said local, I meant starting with your city, or your county, or your state.

I prefer fantasy, but I have to live in reality.
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28-01-2016, 08:47 AM
RE: How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
(28-01-2016 01:22 AM)Adrianime Wrote:  Well, first I never claimed I wanted to see a change.

And when I said local, I meant starting with your city, or your county, or your state.

My apologies. I had inferred from your posts a dissatisfaction with matters as they stand now, and concomitant to that a desire for change.

My apologies for imputing to you a position you don't hold.
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28-01-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
Hillary is not fit for the office. She is a liar, a thief and incompetent at basic requirements for the job. She is a friggin lawyer and she decided to delete emails after the request to produce them? I am no lawyer but that sounds like the intentional destruction of evidence. Add to that the complete disregard of the appearance of independence with the actions of the Clinton Foundation before, during and after her thankfully short stint as SoS. The problem is, she happens to be running against someone who has very strong socialist tendencies, a blowhard, racist hairpiece and a neanderthal creep. Not one of the top four should have made it this far. The stranglehold on the parties by the noisy extremes will fuck this country over. If you vote for Hillary for any other reason other than I think the other guy will be worse you aren't using the brain that evolution gave you.

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored- Aldous Huxley
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28-01-2016, 12:06 PM
RE: How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
(28-01-2016 11:59 AM)devilsadvoc8 Wrote:  Hillary is not fit for the office. She is a liar, a thief and incompetent at basic requirements for the job. She is a friggin lawyer and she decided to delete emails after the request to produce them? I am no lawyer but that sounds like the intentional destruction of evidence. Add to that the complete disregard of the appearance of independence with the actions of the Clinton Foundation before, during and after her thankfully short stint as SoS. The problem is, she happens to be running against someone who has very strong socialist tendencies, a blowhard, racist hairpiece and a neanderthal creep. Not one of the top four should have made it this far. The stranglehold on the parties by the noisy extremes will fuck this country over. If you vote for Hillary for any other reason other than I think the other guy will be worse you aren't using the brain that evolution gave you.

No, go ahead, tell us how you REALLY feel.

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28-01-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: How can any sane person vote for Hillary Clinton?
(27-01-2016 10:39 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  You do realize that the waves which pound seashore cliffs into sandy beaches -- those waves consist of molecules moving in concert, right? Expecting your solitary droplet to cause erosion isn't realistic. What are you doing to get those around you off the two-party tit?

Sadly, this won't affect the two party system, either. The best you can do is oust one party and replace it with another (this has happened several times in our country). But, until the constitution is amended, the system will always only support two strong parties.
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